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Millers want more money

Boris said:
Lol u had to get overtly political. How do u explain LA NYC DETROIY PISTONS an all the liberal cities in baseball and football building franchise stadiums for there teams?

Political posters like you on this site are a complete joke. Keep driving that left right wedge okay.
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Ellis269 said:
It's funny to me that Utah fans want to bitch about a pro sports team looking for a tax break when Sacramento, Oakland and San Diego all faced losing their teams (Kings, Raiders and Chargers) minus a MAJOR financial commitment from the community.

There is NO OTHER pro sports team coming to Utah. Probably ever. They are fronting the cost themselves and then asking for a tax break to recoup some of the expense. Less than a $1 million per year tax break for a team that is heavily invested in the local economy. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Sometimes I think people around here like to bitch because they like to bitch. Seattle would GLADLY take our team away from SLC in an effing heartbeat.
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The Millers have more to lose than we do. If the Millers sold the Jazz, or moved the team because they couldn't get a new arena, their empire would crumble. They own the Jazz outright. They own the arena the Jazz play in. Their other businesses operate almost purely off the fact that they saved the Jazz and gave us John and Karl.

Screw them. They've screwed us since Deron and Jerry left. It's only less than a million per year, but the state holds all the leverage here. What are the Millers going to do?

Leave?

lol. Get real. They need us way more than we need them.

You think the Millers would move to Seattle? Give up an arena they OWN for a crappy arena the city owns? The Millers would lose MILLIONS in lost revenue on the arena. Let alone all the business they would lose with their dealerships, theaters, etc.

The Millers aren't going anywhere. They won't rebuild in Sandy for hundreds of millions over 20 million.

The Millers have no ground to stand on.
 
green said:
See my post above. The Millers aren't leaving Utah.
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The only reason that would happen is if they decide to transform the franchise to a bigger market team if they are thinking that the main reason of their team's disability to contend is their location and small market not being attractive enough. Vegas is a direct changer for that. They would have a big market team like another one to sign, draft and fail over and over again.

In my opinion success in basketball does not come with playing in a big market city. There are much more essential things than that which could get you your rings. The money unfortunately divides greatly formed teams after a certain era of achievement.
 
green said:
See my post above. The Millers aren't leaving Utah.
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Kewl... They could sell the team and the subsequent owner moves them.
 
I don't get why everyone is upset. The tax rebate will not cost the citizens of Utah a dime. The millers pour in over 100 mil of their own money which will increase the value of the arena, which will increase the taxes they have to pay. From what I understand, even with the less than a mil per year tax break they would be getting on the property in this proposed deal, they will still pay the city more in taxes than they did before the renovation. Also better arena means more income in other ways. There is no downside here.

Look at other cities. They are being asked to fund the bill for new arenas or renovations. The Millers are asking for no money from the taxpayers.
 
My2Cents said:
So I guess the difference is that liberals take advantage of tax incentives, but they hate doing it?
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The difference is people that need help can't get it, and the people that don't do. And everyone else pays their bill.

Yeah, I think $22 million could be better used than lining the richest family in the state's pockets. **** me, right?
 
Edgewriter said:
I don't get why everyone is upset. The tax rebate will not cost the citizens of Utah a dime. The millers pour in over 100 mil of their own money which will increase the value of the arena, which will increase the taxes they have to pay. From what I understand, even with the less than a mil per year tax break they would be getting on the property in this proposed deal, they will still pay the city more in taxes than they did before the renovation. Also better arena means more income in other ways. There is no downside here.

Look at other cities. They are being asked to fund the bill for new arenas or renovations. The Millers are asking for no money from the taxpayers.
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Just because the mega-rich in other such situations are usually much worse shouldn't affect how it's absurd that the rich are given money for being rich. And I apparently don't know much about what's going on here, because to me, it sounds like you must be saying that this $22 million is appearing out of nowhere. Generally, money comes from somewhere else.

But I don't really care all that much. This absurdism is par for the course.
 
NUMBERICA said:
The difference is people that need help can't get it, and the people that don't do. And everyone else pays their bill.

Yeah, I think $22 million could be better used than lining the richest family in the state's pockets. **** me, right?
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I appreciate your desire for fairness, and compassion for the poor, but I think you don't understand how the rda tax increment works.

The story that SLC is taking 22 million out of a fund for homeless or hungry and handing it to Greg Miller is completely false. To suggest anything close to that narrative displays a complete misunderstanding of how a tax increment rda operates. The 22 million does not come out of an existing budget, no SLC program will be cut, no program for helping the poor or any member of the citzenrary will be cut.

From the sltrib..."The plan, which will be presented to the Salt Lake City Redevelopment Agency (RDA) on Tuesday, calls for Larry H. Miller Sports (LHM) to initially foot the entire bill for the renovation. But then LHM is asking the city to funnel 40 percent of new property taxes the company pays for the arena — up to $22.7 million — back to it over a period of 25 years." https://www.sltrib.com/news/3993285-155/utah-jazz-will-ask-slc-for

The 22 million will never exist if the arena expansion doesn't happen.

If the millers spend 100+ million to improve the arena they will pay more in taxes because of the increased valuation of the property. Roughly 56.75 million more in taxes over 25 years, this in addition to the taxes they already pay on the Arena. The rda allows the millers to revive a refund of 40% of the taxes they will pay on the increased value. They still pay 60% of the taxes.

The city will participate because it recognizes that increasing the property value of the arena keeps the property values high in the area around the arena. Again, a reminder property taxes are based on property values, so higher property means more tax revenue. Also, property values have two components 1- land value and 2- building value.

Now suppose the rda does not exist, and the arena is left as is. The value of the building will actually begin to decrease as it goes deeper into its useful life. The land value might increase, but it might also decrease depending on valuations and land sales in the area. The overall tax revenue for the arena and the area is very likely to decrease. The rda investment actually protects the tax revenue in the area by keeping land and building valuations high.
 
Exactly! We're talking a net increase of tax revenue to the state. People are so knee jerk about this thing it's frustrating. No one is lining the MIller's pockets! They are spending the money and are getting a tax break of 40% of new taxes because of the increased value. Some people just don't want to listen to facts and would rather believe the worst.
 
Edgewriter said:
Exactly! We're talking a net increase of tax revenue to the state. People are so knee jerk about this thing it's frustrating. No one is lining the MIller's pockets! They are spending the money and are getting a tax break of 40% of new taxes because of the increased value. Some people just don't want to listen to facts and would rather believe the worst.
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So, when you improve your house and the value increases and your property taxes go up, do you get a tax break?

Then why are you so willing to let them have a tax break?

I don't get why middle class americans are so eager to let billionaires have tax breaks. You know that that money comes from somewhere, don't you? If the Millers don't pay, someone pays.

Why do want it to be you over them?

Blows my mind.
 
Like I said, give them the tax break.

BUT, in order to get the tax break, they need to do two things:

Every year they make the playoffs, they get the tax break.

If they don't win a title in the next 25 years, then they have to refund the money up to 10 million.

If we, the collective, are going to pay for their tax break, give us something back for it.

And, no, the Millers making a billion dollars and gracing us with their presence isn't them giving us something. We've given them far more than they can ever give us.

It's time for them to give back to us. After they've made a billion dollars, its the least they can do.
 
green said:
Screw them. They've screwed us since Deron and Jerry left.
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My hell you're a whiny biotch. Utah had half a season as one of the best teams in the league before injuries hammered us, but let's just forget about that and pretend things have been all doom and gloom for as long as we can remember. Fans like you are clueless about just how difficult it is too build an NBA team. You think it's just a matter of throwing **** loads of money at the problem and then the championships just start stacking up. You know, kind of like the Knicks used to operate and recently the Nets. It's never that easy, and sometimes it simply takes time to find the right deal to improve the team. When teams get desperate to win immediately, that's when they overpay for the wrong players and cause themselves problems that can take years to fix.

Every FO makes mistakes at times, including Utah, but before Exum got injured, the team was well on it's way to becoming legit. Fans like you remind me of the GS fans who booed their GM at Chris Mullins' jersey retirement because he traded away Monta Ellis. Believe it or not, Utah is in a good position and injury problems can happen to any team. OKC missed the playoffs a year ago, and fans with your kind of mindset probably would have traded away the whole team and started over. Building an NBA team takes time, and trashing the FO because the team had injury problems is stupid and irrational.
 
green said:
So, when you improve your house and the value increases and your property taxes go up, do you get a tax break?
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I don't know. How many people do you employ at your home? Do a million people come to your home every year? And when they do, do they buy things from all of your neighbors? Because if they do, that would create jobs and tax revenue and I think you should get a tax break.
 
My2Cents said:
I don't know. How many people do you employ at your home? Do a million people come to your home every year? And when they do, do they buy things from all of your neighbors? Because if they do, that would create jobs and tax revenue and I think you should get a tax break.
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Ahhhhh. Duped into trickle down I see.
 
Seems like the city has a no-brainer decision to make on this one. Millers could have asked for (and probably would have received) much more.

BTW, unlike an increasing number of voices around here, I continue to believe that Jazz management is working hard toward the goal of winning a championship, and I also believe that their strategy has been good. Tax incentives are not going to be tied to their success at that, though. I don't think the city would ever ask for that and I don't think the Millers would ever agree to it.
 
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