Official Sign DeAndre Jordan Thread (Note from Jazzfanz: Thread not official)

[Jazz4ever]

It refers to Sap specifically in that response, but to any player on the team really. We cannot let sentiment keep us from making a move to improve. Sap is not a 3. No matter how much we wish he were. He is a PF in a SF's body, without the speed or ability to really play the 3. So we shouldn't force him into that spot "just cuz".

I like Sap and would love to see him with us long term, but he is not much beyond a very solid role player who can give you a break-out game from time to time. I would not hitch the future of the franchise to that pony.

But the same applies to everyone right now. If they don't fit, find a way to move them for a piece that does.

I might bite on a Nic Batum or Paul George deal, but the list of qualified small forwards who could be realistically acquired is much smaller than you think. To be honest Indiana is the best trading partner in the world for Millsap. He is a massive upgrade over Psycho T and his height could be covered up with Hibbert at 7'2" as their center. Not sure who they value more, Granger or George, but something could probably be worked out.

 

[NUMBERICA]

It refers to Sap specifically in that response, but to any player on the team really. We cannot let sentiment keep us from making a move to improve. Sap is not a 3. No matter how much we wish he were. He is a PF in a SF's body, without the speed or ability to really play the 3. So we shouldn't force him into that spot "just cuz".

I like Sap and would love to see him with us long term, but he is not much beyond a very solid role player who can give you a break-out game from time to time. I would not hitch the future of the franchise to that pony.

But the same applies to everyone right now. If they don't fit, find a way to move them for a piece that does.

Alright then, why does this specifically refer to Millsap and not Jefferson? Positionally you run into the same problem with him as you do with Millsap if that's your only criteria (and it seems to be). Al is too slow to guard many 4s, being further from the basket he'd be more pitiful on help, and as a guy that loves that push shot more than playing an actual power post game I don't think he gains an edge on offense either. That's not to add in that Jefferson's PLAY has been as close to square peg/round hole as you'll find in the league on this team. Millsap has been one of the only square peg/square hole players on this entire team and you think he's the culprit of hurting others roles yet being catered to?

P.S. I think low-post play is overrated. I thought so before the Jazz got Jefferson and I feel more strongly about it now. The only way it works is if you have shooters and an able and willing passer from the post, and/or a player able to operate out of the high post with an even better ability to pass. Having a guy that demands so much room inside and demands to work on his own is the worst thing you can have in an offense predicated on ball-movement and cutters (or pick-and-roll, which took him half the season [and 8 years] to be better than horrible at). It destroys the room necessary for anyone else to do anything inside, and that's especially bad when you don't have the passing or the shooting to play post ball the way it should. If you can find a post-player that has the ability and willingness to pass and you have shooters around him, it can work. Even better is if the post-player can hit players on the move and shoot well enough to draw attention at the high-post and allow room for the rest of the team to get to the rim without being smothered by help. If post play isn't overrated, it's that it's FAR more complex than one ogre defeating another ogre in a match of strength.

 

[LogGrad98]

Clearly Sap can lose some bulk to gain lateral quickness. I'm not saying he can guard every SF in this league, but he is so much better offensively than anything else we have (assuming G-time is the SG) that it doesn't even make sense not to try it.

We are rebuilding. If we have a square peg but only a round hole to put him in, then he needs to be traded, not forced in just because he fits better than any of the other pegs we have.

It refers to Sap specifically in that response, but to any player on the team really. We cannot let sentiment keep us from making a move to improve. Sap is not a 3. No matter how much we wish he were. He is a PF in a SF's body, without the speed or ability to really play the 3. So we shouldn't force him into that spot "just cuz".

I like Sap and would love to see him with us long term, but he is not much beyond a very solid role player who can give you a break-out game from time to time. I would not hitch the future of the franchise to that pony.

But the same applies to everyone right now. If they don't fit, find a way to move them for a piece that does.

Alright then, why does this specifically refer to Millsap and not Jefferson? Positionally you run into the same problem with him as you do with Millsap if that's your only criteria (and it seems to be).

Please note the sequence of events before putting words in my mouth. I specifically made my response to a post ABOUT MILLSAP. Then I specifically said it could apply to any player on the team. No one is untouchable.

I was commenting on the faulty logic of putting Sap at the 3 just because we don't have anyone better to play that position, rather than trying to find a better fit at the 3 than Sap would be.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Please note the sequence of events before putting words in my mouth. I specifically made my response to a post ABOUT MILLSAP. Then I specifically said it could apply to any player on the team. No one is untouchable.

I was commenting on the faulty logic of putting Sap at the 3 just because we don't have anyone better to play that position, rather than trying to find a better fit at the 3 than Sap would be.

I guess I'm confused, then. You're saying your post refers to Millsap and it was in response to another Millsap post, but you weren't singling out Millsap to any degree? That doesn't make sense to me, but we generally agree that close to no one is untouchable. All I'm saying is that Millsap fits your description the least as far as how someone PLAYS on the team. Millsap - the Jazz's most consistent and productive player for the season on a cheap deal and showing all of the qualities in a person you want on your team - is the least of the Jazz's worries.

 

[NUMBERICA]

P.S. Half of this board would take Derrick Williams with the #1 pick and more than half the board seems to think Millsap's tweener-ness is a road-block to success. This place has some brilliant minds, but if that general truth doesn't show how silly fandom is in general and how knee-jerk it is specifically, I don't know what does.

 

[My2Cents]

P.S. Half of this board would take Derrick Williams with the #1 pick and more than half the board seems to think Millsap's tweener-ness is a road-block to success. This place has some brilliant minds, but if that general truth doesn't show how silly fandom is in general and how knee-jerk it is specifically, I don't know what does.

You are assuming the half that would take Williams is the same half who think Millsap is a road block. Either way it's hard to believe anyone would take Williams over Irving.

 

[NUMBERICA]

You are assuming the half that would take Williams is the same half who think Millsap is a road block. Either way it's hard to believe anyone would take Williams over Irving.

You're right, I am. I'm dealing exclusively in perceptions, but perceptions that are nonetheless informed. Pulling numbers totally out of my ***, I'd say 75%-80% of people here think Millsap is not or shouldn't be a part of the team's future because he's a tweener. And currently, right around half of people polled (more than half as of right now technically) would draft Williams WITH THE #1 PICK even though he hasn't and doesn't play SF but would definitely be undersized as a PF (tweener). If my estimate is anywhere in the vicinity of accurate, then there is definitely overlap.

 

[My2Cents]

You're right, I am. I'm dealing exclusively in perceptions, but perceptions that are nonetheless informed. Pulling numbers totally out of my ***, I'd say 75%-80% of people here think Millsap is not or shouldn't be a part of the team's future because he's a tweener. And currently, right around half of people polled (more than half as of right now technically) would draft Williams WITH THE #1 PICK even though he hasn't and doesn't play SF but would definitely be undersized as a PF (tweener). If my estimate is anywhere in the vicinity of accurate, then there is definitely overlap.

Could be, although only 14 people have voted for Williams. I hope 75%-80% is high because Millsap is my favorite player on the team. I guess that's why the inmates are not allowed to run the asylum.

 

[Ben10]

You're right, I am. I'm dealing exclusively in perceptions, but perceptions that are nonetheless informed. Pulling numbers totally out of my ***, I'd say 75%-80% of people here think Millsap is not or shouldn't be a part of the team's future because he's a tweener. And currently, right around half of people polled (more than half as of right now technically) would draft Williams WITH THE #1 PICK even though he hasn't and doesn't play SF but would definitely be undersized as a PF (tweener). If my estimate is anywhere in the vicinity of accurate, then there is definitely overlap.

First let me say here that I would go with Irving with the first pick. I think he is the BPA.

I think the perceptions with Millsap goes something like this Numberica. It has nothing to do with our love for the man. He is a great player and a player that I don't want to see on any team but ours. Were the problem lies is that as a starting PF he gets owned by most of the other PF's in the league. Dirk, Aldridge, Pau continually go off for 30+ point games against him. (understand that I feel if you put Jefferson on them the same thing happens). Now we have a player in Favors (if he can learn not to foul) that can contain this type of player. Were Jefferson can play the Center (Bynum, Camby, Chandler) due to his size. Millsap can not. For years fans have been saying we have to get longer to play against the Lakers and other contenders. Favors brings that and along with Jefferson who can play against Slower Centers and block there shots we now have that size. I think a 3 man rotation of Favors, Jefferson and Sap is a dream as long as it Millsap that is coming off the bench and is our punch on the second unit.

Its this reason alone that If he won't take that roll then I feel he has to be the one that gets traded. The exception being if we get someone like Jordan that well play the C instead of Jefferson that is moble and enough of a help defender to help Sap out on the block.