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Trump vs Pro Athletes

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Enjoy this story while you can.

The massive problems in Puerto Rico will boil over into the front of the news cycle in about 24-48 hours.
 
Well, I think I figured out what Trump is doing, and it is dangerous.

He is taking the negative aspects associated with the emotion of nationalism and deliberately confusing it with the positive aspects associated with the emotion of patriotism.

At its heart, patriotism is simply love of country.

Nationalism, on the other hand has often been used by authoritarian leaders to whip up enmity toward the Other. Often, that Other is an outside power or enemy, and a focus there is often a diversionary tactic to remove focus on domestic problems.

But nationalism can also be used to stir up enmity toward fellow citizens, if the leader can label them as unpatriotic, as not loving their country enough. Trump long ago identified one such internal enemy when he stated the mainstream media was "the enemy of the people". Now, by trying to win a battle in the culture wars, via his attack on pro athletes, what he is really trying to do is convince a majority of Americans that the entire Left is unpatriotic, the enrire Left does not love their country enough. Yes, there is an obvious racial element and appeal to white grievance. But, at its heart, I believe this is an effort by Trump to solidify his position as the leader of a nationalistic cult, disguised as patriotism. Basically, this is Tyranny 101. We do have 3 equal branches of government; we do have a free press. But citizens can have the wool pulled over their eyes, and I believe that is what he is attempting here.

He would bring us to the point where any attack on him is unpatriotic.

This is a tactic of an authoritarian.

Consider this observation by Timothy Snyder in his booklet "On Tyranny". (For my money, Snyder is my era's Thomas Paine).

"“The president is a nationalist, which is not at all the same thing as a patriot. A nationalist encourages us to be our worst, and then tells us that we are the best. A nationalist, “although endlessly brooding on power, victory, defeat, revenge,” wrote Orwell, tends to be “uninterested in what happens in the real world.” Nationalism is relativist, since the only truth is the resentment we feel when we contemplate others. As the novelist Danilo Kiš put it, nationalism “has no universal values, aesthetic or ethical.” A patriot, by contrast, wants the nation to live up to its ideals, which means asking us to be our best selves. A patriot must be concerned with the real world, which is the only place where his country can be loved and sustained. A patriot has universal values, standards by which he judges his nation, always wishing it well—and wishing that it would do better. Democracy failed in Europe in the 1920s, ’30s, and ’40s, and it is failing not only in much of Europe but in many parts of the world today. It is that history and experience that reveals to us the dark range of our possible futures. A nationalist will say that “it can’t happen here,” which is the first step toward disaster. A patriot says that it could happen here, but that we will stop it."

― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century

Is this not an effort to bring out the worst in us, disguised as an effort to bring out the best? This is deliberate on Trump's part. He is deliberately dividing Americans. If that is not reprehensible and injurious to the health of our body politic, what is?
 
Red said:
Well, I think I figured out what Trump is doing, and it is dangerous.

He is taking the negative aspects associated with the emotion of nationalism and deliberately confusing it with the positive aspects associated with the emotion of patriotism.

At its heart, patriotism is simply love of country.

Nationalism, on the other hand has often been used by authoritarian leaders to whip up enmity toward the Other. Often, that Other is an outside power or enemy, and a focus there is often a diversionary tactic to remove focus on domestic problems.

But nationalism can also be used to stir up enmity toward fellow citizens, if the leader can label them as unpatriotic, as not loving their country enough. Trump long ago identified one such internal enemy when he stated the mainstream media was "the enemy of the people". Now, by trying to win a battle in the culture wars, via his attack on pro athletes, what he is really trying to do is convince a majority of Americans that the entire Left is unpatriotic, the enrire Left does not love their country enough. Yes, there is an obvious racial element and appeal to white grievance. But, at its heart, I believe this is an effort by Trump to solidify his position as the leader of a nationalistic cult, disguised as patriotism. Basically, this is Tyranny 101. We do have 3 equal branches of government; we do have a free press. But citizens can have the wool pulled over their eyes, and I believe that is what he is attempting here.

He would bring us to the point where any attack on him is unpatriotic.

This is a tactic of an authoritarian.

Consider this observation by Timothy Snyder in his booklet "On Tyranny". (For my money, Snyder is my era's Thomas Paine).

"“The president is a nationalist, which is not at all the same thing as a patriot. A nationalist encourages us to be our worst, and then tells us that we are the best. A nationalist, “although endlessly brooding on power, victory, defeat, revenge,” wrote Orwell, tends to be “uninterested in what happens in the real world.” Nationalism is relativist, since the only truth is the resentment we feel when we contemplate others. As the novelist Danilo Kiš put it, nationalism “has no universal values, aesthetic or ethical.” A patriot, by contrast, wants the nation to live up to its ideals, which means asking us to be our best selves. A patriot must be concerned with the real world, which is the only place where his country can be loved and sustained. A patriot has universal values, standards by which he judges his nation, always wishing it well—and wishing that it would do better. Democracy failed in Europe in the 1920s, ’30s, and ’40s, and it is failing not only in much of Europe but in many parts of the world today. It is that history and experience that reveals to us the dark range of our possible futures. A nationalist will say that “it can’t happen here,” which is the first step toward disaster. A patriot says that it could happen here, but that we will stop it."

― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century

Is this not an effort to bring out the worst in us, disguised as an effort to bring out the best? This is deliberate on Trump's part. He is deliberately dividing Americans. If that is not reprehensible and injurious to the health of our body politic, what is?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying I disagree with you; but the far right has been doing this for at least the last 50 years now - definitely since LBJ vs. Barry Goldwater. Culturally, economically...you name it.

Trump just happens to be the most brazen at it.
 
Red said:
Well, I think I figured out what Trump is doing, and it is dangerous.

He is taking the negative aspects associated with the emotion of nationalism and deliberately confusing it with the positive aspects associated with the emotion of patriotism.

At its heart, patriotism is simply love of country.

Nationalism, on the other hand has often been used by authoritarian leaders to whip up enmity toward the Other. Often, that Other is an outside power or enemy, and a focus there is often a diversionary tactic to remove focus on domestic problems.

But nationalism can also be used to stir up enmity toward fellow citizens, if the leader can label them as unpatriotic, as not loving their country enough. Trump long ago identified one such internal enemy when he stated the mainstream media was "the enemy of the people". Now, by trying to win a battle in the culture wars, via his attack on pro athletes, what he is really trying to do is convince a majority of Americans that the entire Left is unpatriotic, the enrire Left does not love their country enough. Yes, there is an obvious racial element and appeal to white grievance. But, at its heart, I believe this is an effort by Trump to solidify his position as the leader of a nationalistic cult, disguised as patriotism. Basically, this is Tyranny 101. We do have 3 equal branches of government; we do have a free press. But citizens can have the wool pulled over their eyes, and I believe that is what he is attempting here.

He would bring us to the point where any attack on him is unpatriotic.

This is a tactic of an authoritarian.

Consider this observation by Timothy Snyder in his booklet "On Tyranny". (For my money, Snyder is my era's Thomas Paine).

"“The president is a nationalist, which is not at all the same thing as a patriot. A nationalist encourages us to be our worst, and then tells us that we are the best. A nationalist, “although endlessly brooding on power, victory, defeat, revenge,” wrote Orwell, tends to be “uninterested in what happens in the real world.” Nationalism is relativist, since the only truth is the resentment we feel when we contemplate others. As the novelist Danilo Kiš put it, nationalism “has no universal values, aesthetic or ethical.” A patriot, by contrast, wants the nation to live up to its ideals, which means asking us to be our best selves. A patriot must be concerned with the real world, which is the only place where his country can be loved and sustained. A patriot has universal values, standards by which he judges his nation, always wishing it well—and wishing that it would do better. Democracy failed in Europe in the 1920s, ’30s, and ’40s, and it is failing not only in much of Europe but in many parts of the world today. It is that history and experience that reveals to us the dark range of our possible futures. A nationalist will say that “it can’t happen here,” which is the first step toward disaster. A patriot says that it could happen here, but that we will stop it."

― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century

Is this not an effort to bring out the worst in us, disguised as an effort to bring out the best? This is deliberate on Trump's part. He is deliberately dividing Americans. If that is not reprehensible and injurious to the health of our body politic, what is?
Click to expand...

candrew said:
I'm not saying I disagree with you; but the far right has been doing this for at least the last 50 years now - definitely since LBJ vs. Barry Goldwater. Culturally, economically...you name it.

Trump just happens to be the most brazen at it.
Click to expand...

Yes, and watching Ken Burn's "The Vietnam War" these days is bringing back a lot of memories in that respect.
 
I need to log in before reading so I don't accidentally see the ignore list posters. Unfortunately it's starting to include some otherwise rational posters.
 
The NFL's Alejandro Villanueva (former Army Ranger) became a poster boy for a viewpoint he doesn't actually hold. This opinion piece does a good job explaining his press conference, which unfortunately will not be heard nearly as much as his picture was. My favorite part:

What people don't understand is that people who are taking a knee are not saying anything negative about the military. They're not saying anything negative about the flag. They're just trying to protest the fact that there are some injustices in America. And for people to stand up for the national anthem, it doesn't mean that they don't believe in these racial injustices. They're just trying to do the right thing. So we as a team tried to figure it out, obviously butchered it. But I've learned that I don't know what it's like to be from Dade County, I don't know what it's like to be from Lakeland. I can't tell you that I know what my teammates have gone through, so I'm not going to pretend like I have the righteous sort of voice to tell you that you should stand up for the national anthem. It is protected by our constitution and by our country. It's freedom of speech. People felt that based on the comments that the president made, that they had to go out and protect and support Colin Kaepernick. And that's completely in their right, but it's not something we were trying to do with the Steelers. We were trying to be unified, and unfortunately, I made the team look sort of all over the place and not unified.
Click to expand...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/in-the-end-alejandro-villanueva%e2%80%99s-beliefs-were-more-complicated-than-many-wanted-to-hear/ar-AAsuovL?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

 
Yeah I think this entire thing is so blown out of proportion it isn't funny. Take a knee, don't take a knee. People all over the place do different and stupid things in these circumstances. To make some judgement about a person's character based on whether they do what you think they should during a song sung before a bunch of grown men play a child's game is absurd in the extreme. I was once at a Jazz game and the guy next to me, during the anthem had his hat off his head, his hand on his heart, and kept saying things like "**** the military, get out of Afghanistan" loud enough that several around him could hear him. So he did all the right things right? Didn't kneel or anythig. but he was still an ******* (proved it even more during the game). It is all stupid.
 
candrew said:
Enjoy this story while you can.

The massive problems in Puerto Rico will boil over into the front of the news cycle in about 24-48 hours.
Click to expand...

the problem that it became the biggest story is ridicyulous trump jsut said what his base is thinking during a campaign speech for a special elction.

btw all special elections so far the repubs won!


5-0 i think, 5-0 if i am correct but something like that
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yeah I think this entire thing is so blown out of proportion it isn't funny. Take a knee, don't take a knee. People all over the place do different and stupid things in these circumstances. To make some judgement about a person's character based on whether they do what you think they should during a song sung before a bunch of grown men play a child's game is absurd in the extreme. I was once at a Jazz game and the guy next to me, during the anthem had his hat off his head, his hand on his heart, and kept saying things like "**** the military, get out of Afghanistan" loud enough that several around him could hear him. So he did all the right things right? Didn't kneel or anythig. but he was still an ******* (proved it even more during the game). It is all stupid.
Click to expand...
This
 
So not to defend trump or anything but to say he is spending all this time attacking the NFL to the supposed neglect of anything else is disingenuous. How long does it take to tweet? I have no doubt he is always looking for things to tweet about especially anything that gets him attention. This is just the current post-masturbatory obsession he has. As soon as this goes stale he'll move on to something equally as stupid.

Oh and he is neglecting all kinds of **** just par for the course really.
 
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