Sure. But we're talking about two players that were never an important ingredient to winning basketball.
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Rudy Gobert has got to go
- Thread starter feeko
- Start date
Neither has AK. Favors has been a solid starter and contributor besides while injured. He was a borderline all-star the year before he got hurt. I think your expectations were too high for him. I was hopeful he would turn into a decent starter and maybe more and he did. I hoped for a lot for AK as well but all we got was a disappointment and playoff tears. He was all hopeful potential. He peaked at 22 on a team that needed someone to fill stats. After than he went downhill and pretty quick. He got a paycheck and quit putting in effort to get better.
The only part of that I agree with is that Rubio are AK are similar. Both cant shoot and turned the ball over about as much as they assist and make a lot of stupid plays. But play good team defense, just not good man to man defense.
I would take every aspect of Green's game over AK and I am not even that big of fan of Green. The biggest difference between the two is that Green likes playing basketball, has passion and works to improve his game.
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Tak
Well-Known Member
Decent starter hopes for a nº3 draft pick? You sure have low expectations when convenient.
Getting Traded
Banned
Guess you don't remember AK in his prime. Rubio is nowhere near the defensive player that AK was. From 2003-2006, he averaged 3.1 blocks / game and 1.7 steals. AK also didn't turn it over that much until Deron arrived on the scene and they pushed him in the corner and he started driving into the paint where he would get stripped. In fact, he averaged less than 2 TOs / game for his career, and his turnovers were not created by bad passes, as he was an excellent passer. His career shooting percentage was over 50 % (Sure, a lot of those were dunks, but he could've had a lot more dunks if Jerry had used him the way the Russian national teams did. He won the Eurobasket MVP one year when he led Russia to the championship. Jerry had a big role in AK not realizing his potential in the NBA. Rubio also has never even sniffed All-Star status. AK would've thrived in a situation like Golden State because he was at his best in the open court, and Jerry played at a more controlled pace.
People just remember AK after he melted down and not the AK who had the potential to be one of the best players in the NBA.
I remember prime 22 year old AK. I was excited for his future. I didnt realize that he had peaked way too early and would get worse every year after that. Very few players peak that early without significant injuries. But AK is the rare exception of the player who gets paid and thinks he made it and stops improving and trying to improve.
Yes, AK didnt handle the ball nearly as much as Rubio does. But he did turn it over a lot for the amount of touches he had before and after the far superior player DWill showed up and took our team somewhere. AK got stripped a lot and also had really bad passes. His Assist to Turnover ratio was never good. His "peak" at 22 he had about the same amount of turnovers as assists if you go by advanced stats his assist % was less than his turnover % his peak year and for his career. So, no he was not a good passer. Ak was a good weakside defender. Not a great man on man defender though.
Udoh also won Euroleague MVP. Some of that translates to the NBA, much of it does not.
AK's problem was not our HOF coach it was himself.
GS would want nothing to do with a player who cant shoot and cant create for himself(career 67% of shots were assisted from 2 and 94% of 3s were assisted). Maybe off the bench he could be something decent for them but he would cry over being benched and pout.
AKs career shooting was not over 50% it was under at 47%. His shooting percentages outside of 3 feet were about 29%.
Sloan could have used AK like Russia did but we would have never sniffed the success we did utilizing our much better offensive weapons Dwill, Boozer and Okur.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Ron - every single Utah Jazz fan expected Favors to become at least a 1 time All Star. Many fans expected him to average a double double or become an elite rim protector.
At the end of the day, we will never know how good AK could have been as a franchise PF because we took that spot from him. We all know what Favors is, and that has been a disappointment.
In my lifetime, the Jazz catered to Derrick Favors more than any other player. And it just didn't pan out. If we would have made him play center, he would have been glorious next to Millsap and Hayward.
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At the end of the day, we will never know how good AK could have been as a franchise PF because we took that spot from him. We all know what Favors is, and that has been a disappointment.
In my lifetime, the Jazz catered to Derrick Favors more than any other player. And it just didn't pan out. If we would have made him play center, he would have been glorious next to Millsap and Hayward.
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Nope, AK is easily the most disappointing player in jazz history to me. Jazz have not catered to Favors to the level of AK or many other players like Hayward.
AK leaving had nothing to do with Favors.
Kanter leaving had nothing to do with Favors.
Millsap leaving had very little to nothing to do with Favors.
He looked like he could have been a good player at 22. He then got paid, quit trying, and got worse every year after 22 despite being relatively healthy.
Favors in the other hand has improved every year except when injured and is still improving. Wish we could have got that out of AK, then he would have turned out a decent career in the NBA.
AK leaving had nothing to do with Favors.
Kanter leaving had nothing to do with Favors.
Millsap leaving had very little to nothing to do with Favors.
He looked like he could have been a good player at 22. He then got paid, quit trying, and got worse every year after 22 despite being relatively healthy.
Favors in the other hand has improved every year except when injured and is still improving. Wish we could have got that out of AK, then he would have turned out a decent career in the NBA.
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Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
I know that there’s a lot of frustration with Favors not ever taking the big step forward, but he’s still only 26 years old. He’s in his 8th year as a professional and is only 4 years older than Kyle Kuzma.
Heading into this season, despite multiple injury issues with both guys, arguably the worst PG situation in the league, and the fact that the Jazz have rolled out some atrocious 3 man groups to go with them. . . since Rudy Gobert took over the starting center job following the Enes Kanter trade, the Gobert/Favors starting frontcourt has won 60% of their games together. With one or the other (but not both - usually featuring Booker, Lyles or Diaw as the 2nd big) they’ve won 55% of their games together. With neither guy in the lineup, that drops to winning only 33% of their games.
Am I suggesting that starting Gobert/Favors together is perfect? Obviously not. But I’m convinced it’s not nearly as broken as we might believe it is. I think there’s a workable solution to keeping both Gobert and Favors together. . . and it begins with moving Rubio to the bench and playing Gobert, Favors, Jingles, Hood and Mitchell a lot together to see how the chemistry works.
2014/15
Together = 15 - 9 (63%)
One Starter = 4 - 1 (80%)
2015/16
Together = 26 - 23 (53%)
One Starter = 11 - 14 (44%)
Neither = 3 - 5 (38%)
2016/17
Together = 28 - 14 (67%)
One Starter = 23 - 16 (59%)
Neither = 0 - 1 (0%)
Heading into this season, despite multiple injury issues with both guys, arguably the worst PG situation in the league, and the fact that the Jazz have rolled out some atrocious 3 man groups to go with them. . . since Rudy Gobert took over the starting center job following the Enes Kanter trade, the Gobert/Favors starting frontcourt has won 60% of their games together. With one or the other (but not both - usually featuring Booker, Lyles or Diaw as the 2nd big) they’ve won 55% of their games together. With neither guy in the lineup, that drops to winning only 33% of their games.
Am I suggesting that starting Gobert/Favors together is perfect? Obviously not. But I’m convinced it’s not nearly as broken as we might believe it is. I think there’s a workable solution to keeping both Gobert and Favors together. . . and it begins with moving Rubio to the bench and playing Gobert, Favors, Jingles, Hood and Mitchell a lot together to see how the chemistry works.
2014/15
Together = 15 - 9 (63%)
One Starter = 4 - 1 (80%)
2015/16
Together = 26 - 23 (53%)
One Starter = 11 - 14 (44%)
Neither = 3 - 5 (38%)
2016/17
Together = 28 - 14 (67%)
One Starter = 23 - 16 (59%)
Neither = 0 - 1 (0%)
I definitely think Gobert and Favors can work together and like the combo. They need three good shooters around them to make it work. But the biggest concern is that he is an UFA. I would prefer us to retain him at a reasonable deal but I am unsure how likely that is.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
People get wrapped around in it's either this or that and nothing in between. Was AK an absolute beast his first 5 or so years with the Jazz? Absolutely. He had a unique talent unlike anyone who, at that point, played the game. Did AK end up being a disappointment after signing his max deal. Yes, yes he absolutely did.
It's not one or the other, guys. Dat polarizing partisan 2017 mentality doe.
It's not one or the other, guys. Dat polarizing partisan 2017 mentality doe.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Favors has never been a beast. Ever.
Favors and Gobert do not work together. I swear, some of your are Favors' cousins or something. The guy is so incredibly average.
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Favors and Gobert do not work together. I swear, some of your are Favors' cousins or something. The guy is so incredibly average.
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