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Trump reverses migrant separation policy

You mean, like acknowledging you are a minority President instead of claiming (against evidence) that there were millions of illegal votes? You mean, acknowledging your inauguration crowd was not as large as your predecessors?

I usually overlook Trumps rhetorical brags. He's justified to counter a media that is even less objective, less factual, and less honest. If his critics play that game, don't expect him not to return in kind, big time.

Nobody knows how many fraudulent votes get cast, nobody even has a clue. I look at statistics and reason that extreme, large deviations from the mean should raise concerns about ballot box tampering or local aberrations from legality.

Are you going to try to maintain that there is no significant voter fraud or election fraud? How can you honestly discount rumors without making or calling for efforts to investigate? Urban legends like Chicago's Mayor Daley, or Lyndon Johnson's Texas organization, or Obama's community organizing operations demand some kind of attempt to make sure we don't just let it happen.

An 80% vote might happen in highly homogenous localities of small populations, but it gets increasingly improbable in larger urban areas with highly diverse populations....... well, unless the mean is 75%.
 
I usually overlook Trumps rhetorical brags. He's justified to counter a media that is even less objective, less factual, and less honest. If his critics play that game, don't expect him not to return in kind, big time.

Nobody knows how many fraudulent votes get cast, nobody even has a clue. I look at statistics and reason that extreme, large deviations from the mean should raise concerns about ballot box tampering or local aberrations from legality.

Are you going to try to maintain that there is no significant voter fraud or election fraud? How can you honestly discount rumors without making or calling for efforts to investigate? Urban legends like Chicago's Mayor Daley, or Lyndon Johnson's Texas organization, or Obama's community organizing operations demand some kind of attempt to make sure we don't just let it happen.

An 80% vote might happen in highly homogenous localities of small populations, but it gets increasingly improbable in larger urban areas with highly diverse populations....... well, unless the mean is 75%.

Your first paragraph is based on poor morality and logic.

Basically you’re saying you ignore his lies because another group, the media, also lies.

Well hot damn! Anyone feel like going out and knocking over some gas stations for cash?

It’s ok because others do it more ...
 
Your first paragraph is based on poor morality and logic.

Basically you’re saying you ignore his lies because another group, the media, also lies.

Well hot damn! Anyone feel like going out and knocking over some gas stations for cash?

It’s ok because others do it more ...

nah. I know baseless arguments when I see them and give them no relevance on any scale of morality or logic.

It's been a bad divorce trying to get the establishment outta the government. Pretty much anyone who cares about logic should just get on the next rocket to Mars.

"overlook" doesn't mean "justify". It means I'm not petty. Those who like OB think that is the kind of issue that deserves top billing must not be thinking much about our budget, our economy, our infrastructure, our jobs, our taxes, out homeless, or our immigrants.....

That our media runs with issues like these discredits the "news organizations". Well, maybe it's OK for a comedian humor topic.
 
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well, so the authorities now wanna disown their own "authority"??/ really.

Most Trump supporters just like his open unguarded manner of speech.... while noticing how fluid and changeable it all is. No carefully-crafted do-nothing bs here. Pretty sure he won't get stuck on anything that isn't getting results. Pretty sure he'll change it tomorrow if he realizes it doesn't play well.

The reporter virtue signals her lack of objectivity and real personal credibility as a confirmed democrat all the way through this bit. Of course, without any basis in statistical analysis, she believes Trump supporters all come from "within" the Republican Party.

nah. Trump won because a lot of non-Authoritarians.... some of them democrats, even.... refused to vote for the Establishment, whose chief authority figure called her opponents "deplorables".

and, oh, the chart that proves Republicans are totalitarians..... based on child-rearing values....had a spread of ten percentage points..... wow. Highly predictive. False positive correlation nearly fifty percent. Sure, sure. I really believe this.

what a joke. I bet you could do a comparative poll between Starbucks customers and Cabela's customers, and it would show Cabela's customers are 70% Republicans, and Starbucks customers are 70% Dems, with each getting the same authoritarianist score with oh, 40% or more false positive judgments....
 
nah. I know baseless arguments when I see them and give them no relevance on any scale of morality or logic.

It's been a bad divorce trying to get the establishment outta the government. Pretty much anyone who cares about logic should just get on the next rocket to Mars.

"overlook" doesn't mean "justify". It means I'm not petty. Those who like OB think that is the kind of issue that deserves top billing must not be thinking much about our budget, our economy, our infrastructure, our jobs, our taxes, out homeless, or our immigrants.....

That our media runs with issues like these discredits the "news organizations". Well, maybe it's OK for a comedian humor topic.

Lmfao, it must be exhausting being so biased, presumptuous and hypocritical.

Enjoy your day Babe.
 
got any more terms of hate you can throw around?

well, this is the place to increase your toilet vocabulary, I suppose.
 
Reminds me of when Donald suggested getting rid of due process for gun owners. Why does he always suggest getting rid of law and order? I thought he was the “Law and Order” president?

Could you imagine the outrage if Obama or Bush had ever suggested something like this:

*Edit “Invade” yet again the Donald can’t help but dehumanize people. Sad

 
Outstanding article by republican Rick Wilson:

Donald Trump can’t define or pronounce the word Manichaean, but he knows it when he sees it. For Trump, there are two types of people; Donald Trump, and losers, and the one thing Donald Trump can’t abide is a loser. Donald Trump lost this week on immigration, and across the board. He lost, doubled down, lost again, hocked his cufflinks, lost, tried to flip the table and was finally escorted out of the casino and had his knees broken in the parking lot when he couldn’t pay his marker.

Donald Trump was defeated this week by the two things he hates most: immigrants, and the media.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/this-was-the-week-that-finally-broke-trumps-spell
 
What could possibly go wrong???

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump on Sunday called for the US to deport people without judicial proceedings, referred to an invasion by "these people" and railed against standing immigration laws.

"We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came. Our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and Law and Order. Most children come without parents..." Trump tweeted.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/24/politics/ron-johnson-immigration-cnntv/index.html
 
I usually overlook Trumps rhetorical brags. He's justified to counter a media that is even less objective, less factual, and less honest. If his critics play that game, don't expect him not to return in kind, big time.

I appreciate that this is your honest opinion. You're just wrong about the comparable levels of objectivity, factualness, and honesty between the President and the media (generally, I don't think we have had a President who was more objective, more factual, or more honest than the media in my lifetime).

Nobody knows how many fraudulent votes get cast, nobody even has a clue. I look at statistics and reason that extreme, large deviations from the mean should raise concerns about ballot box tampering or local aberrations from legality.

We know that anyone tries to provide evidence for wide-spread voter fraud, it winds up being a miserable failure. Look to the recent adventures of Kris Kobach, among others.

Are you going to try to maintain that there is no significant voter fraud or election fraud?

There is no significant voter fraud. There is plenty of election fraud, by all sides of the political aisle.

An 80% vote might happen in highly homogenous localities of small populations, but it gets increasingly improbable in larger urban areas with highly diverse populations....... well, unless the mean is 75%.

You forgot about gerrymandering. Districts are deliberately packed like-minded voters.
 
I appreciate that this is your honest opinion. You're just wrong about the comparable levels of objectivity, factualness, and honesty between the President and the media (generally, I don't think we have had a President who was more objective, more factual, or more honest than the media in my lifetime).



We know that anyone tries to provide evidence for wide-spread voter fraud, it winds up being a miserable failure. Look to the recent adventures of Kris Kobach, among others.



There is no significant voter fraud. There is plenty of election fraud, by all sides of the political aisle.



You forgot about gerrymandering. Districts are deliberately packed like-minded voters.

I get plenty of first-hand experience with different parts of town, in many towns and cities. yah I didn't mention gerrymandering. I consider that a huge problem, the cause of reduced turnover in elective office. Essentially, it is the establishment interests, R and D, colluding to enhance their career prospects. Give me my dem voters, I'll give you your R voters.

It is politicians carving up the pie. I don't know how we could eliminate that, really. Everybody's got an angle any time we try to write a bill.

I don't have much reason to dispute any of your assertions above, except the voter fraud thing. A person registering twice and voting twice.... we get a few cases prosecuted once in a while. ineligible people voting? I think that is a cottage industry on the Left, but hey..... If we had a lot of noncitizen probable R people out there, maybe it would be a cottage industry on the Right, too. Such a fuss when ever people suggest photo ID and oh, a utility bill with your name and address on it, or a college registration or dorm rental or any kind of housing agreement. Lots of people, adults, share housing and only one is on the bills. But at least check the drivers license address, OK? No drivers' license? hmmm.... Not surprising to me if you come back with how intimidating that would be to some groups and how it would amount to discrimination against blacks or latinos/Mexicans, etc. Farm works often live in field trailers and such.... So at least try to consider that we really can't track and therefore do not know the extent of voter fraud.

Election fraud refers to institutionalized distortions of poll results by interest parties. yah. Don't trust anybody. Need a way to track handling of the vote count that any candidate... any citizen... can access.
 
I get plenty of first-hand experience with different parts of town, in many towns and cities. yah I didn't mention gerrymandering. I consider that a huge problem, the cause of reduced turnover in elective office. Essentially, it is the establishment interests, R and D, colluding to enhance their career prospects. Give me my dem voters, I'll give you your R voters.

It is politicians carving up the pie. I don't know how we could eliminate that, really. Everybody's got an angle any time we try to write a bill.

I don't have much reason to dispute any of your assertions above, except the voter fraud thing. A person registering twice and voting twice.... we get a few cases prosecuted once in a while. ineligible people voting? I think that is a cottage industry on the Left, but hey..... If we had a lot of noncitizen probable R people out there, maybe it would be a cottage industry on the Right, too. Such a fuss when ever people suggest photo ID and oh, a utility bill with your name and address on it, or a college registration or dorm rental or any kind of housing agreement. Lots of people, adults, share housing and only one is on the bills. But at least check the drivers license address, OK? No drivers' license? hmmm.... Not surprising to me if you come back with how intimidating that would be to some groups and how it would amount to discrimination against blacks or latinos/Mexicans, etc. Farm works often live in field trailers and such.... So at least try to consider that we really can't track and therefore do not know the extent of voter fraud.

Election fraud refers to institutionalized distortions of poll results by interest parties. yah. Don't trust anybody. Need a way to track handling of the vote count that any candidate... any citizen... can access.

Without gerrymandering D's would have a huge advantage. You wouldn't be able to pretend that you represent the majority of Americans any more. Altho you'd still represent the real Americans of course. :D
 
@OB on the first point about media vs. Pres credibility.

We mere mortals have a statistical smoothing processor for dealing with reality.... we inherently try to see a coherent pattern in information of every kind. Things that fit... believe.... things that don't fit... don't believe. We just don't do much check, generally.

I don't have a lot of direct experience with the Press. sure I wrote for a newspaper, have had a few articles published, had some friends who worked in TV newsrooms. A fair number of relatives in public office....judges... lawyers...businessmen with some influence.... but yah. what do I know.

I have generally chosen a different base for my collection of information, so of course the media doesn't fit it well. Believe it when I see it. Media people are trained public managers. To me they look like a kind of Priesthood clique trying to create public consensus where the facts are not actually there for it. Everything is twisted and forced to fit the narrative.

But that's just me.

Most Presidents have been in the direct same line of interests as our media.

I have a practical base for my views, and in that sense I see Trump as a practical man trying to get results in a situation where he realizes he is an outsider to the "Establishment", even though a few years ago he was pals with Hillary and Jesse Jackson. Just trying to go along to get along.

The media's reaction to Trump has seemed to me just hysterical.
 
Without gerrymandering D's would have a huge advantage. You wouldn't be able to pretend that you represent the majority of Americans any more. Altho you'd still represent the real Americans of course. :D

I would just hope we could vote out Establishment schills R and D.
 
I disagree with @babe. Lol.

These are refugees from the northern tier of Central American nations. Trump has demonized and dehumanized them. In the separation policy, we simply see the degree that he will go in this dehumanizing campaign. It was painfully easy, and alarming, to understand all this when he ran for the office he now holds. The dynamic was right out there for all to see, particularly if one was informed by a knowledge of history, and a knowledge of how demagogues can come to power within mass democracies undergoing cultural and social changes that often cause fear and anger among elements within that society.

I am not suggesting or predicting that he, or we, are capable of initiating the most extreme measures enacted by that most evil of 20th century leaders. I am simply pointing out the same dynamic is playing out in our country at this time in our history. And ultimately, we need to reject this dynamic. It simply champions and promotes our lesser instincts. It really is a battle for the soul of our nation. If what we see playing out on our southern border is who we really want to be, history will not judge us well. He's doing exactly what he promised he would do, and his meanness and willingness to dehumanize "the other" is an historical dynamic that never ends well.

I would not want to be Jeff Sessions. I would not want to be Steve Miller. Or General Kelly. Or Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen. History will not be kind to these enablers. The judgement will be harsh. They have cast their lot, and they, with their President, are on the wrong side of history.

Return of the Blood Libel(Paul Krugman, NY Times):

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/op...eturn-of-the-blood-libel-Opinion-13018995.php

"The speed of America’s moral descent under Donald Trump is breathtaking. In a matter of months we’ve gone from a nation that stood for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to a nation that tears children from their parents and puts them in cages.

What’s almost equally remarkable about this plunge into barbarism is that it’s not a response to any actual problem. The mass influx of murderers and rapists that Trump talks about, the wave of crime committed by immigrants here are things that simply aren’t happening. They’re just sick fantasies being used to justify real atrocities....

......No, the real crisis is an upsurge in hatred — unreasoning hatred that bears no relationship to anything the victims have done. And anyone making excuses for that hatred — who tries, for example, to turn it into a “both sides” story — is, in effect, an apologist for crimes against humanity."

-------------------------------------------------
I think the historical dynamic that is happening in our country now, and the dynamic in that earlier time and place, that I'm apparently so reluctant to spell out, is very similar, because both are very much rooted in hatred of an "other". But, who am I kidding, I must be beating around the bush, for fear of Godwin's Law. But wait, Godwin himself does protest:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-godwin-godwins-law-20180624-story.html

"By all means cite GL if you think some Nazi comparison is baseless, needlessly inflammatory or hyperbolic. But Godwin’s Law was never meant to block us from challenging the institutionalization of cruelty or the callousness of officials who claim to be just following the law. It definitely wasn’t meant to shield our leaders from being slammed for the current fashion of pitching falsehoods as fact. These behaviors, distressing as they are, may not yet add up to a new Reich, but please forgive me for worrying that they’re the “embryonic form” of a horror we hoped we had put behind us."
 
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