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2019 Trade Deadline Discussion

MDAV28 said:
Jazz have had a lot of success, even against the Rox slipping screens. Abusing the interior means even if Cappela came over to help Gobert is there for a dump off or putback. I promise you, watch the Rockets games. Favors getting abused on a switch (at least more than anybody else was), or the spacing being off wasn't the big problem. The problem was keying in on Mitch and nobody else being able to create. Exum and Burks had wonderful creating games in game 2, coincidentally the only game the Jazz won.

I'll reiterate, I'm not comparing the lineups, but simply pointing out that the Favors/Gobert duo does have value.
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Capela coming over to help on Favs isn't really a disadvantageous state for Capela since he doesn't have to do much to get back to Gobert... it'll work sometimes but it's not a consistent option. Compared to if he's involved in the PnR and gets switched out, the guy that would have to come over and help would be a perimeter guy which is much more disadvantageous for the Rockets since if he doesn't help it's a layup, if he does get help it's a wide open 3 unless the rotations are on point. So if Mitchell is getting to the rim and Capela is chasing vs moving 2ft from Gobert to be in legal defensive position to help, you would much rather the first scenario where Capela is out of position and tailing the play every time.

Your initial point was that Rubio being hurt meant less minutes for Favors which simply isn't true, the Favors/Gobert lineup simply isn't playable against a team like the Rockets in last years playoffs. I do agree that not having a second playmaker to go with Mitchell in the guard spot hurt but it's not like if the Jazz had a Rubio there that Favors instantly becomes playable again. If anything it's even more reason to keep Favors out since the spacing gets even more cramped between Rubio/Favors/Gobert (although Feb - May Rubio was as hot as he's ever been in his career shooting wise so it's a little bit more viable than usual, but still an inferior option to Crowder/Gobert).

Gobert/Favors has value because they're both great players, but the problem is that you can't play both of them together in a series against the Rockets or Warriors, which are the championship standard teams from last year.
MDAV28 said:
Couple examples:



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Both of those are simply miscommunication errors between a below average defender in Harden and PJ Tucker. It'll work sometimes but you can't tell me that these plays would be a consistently better option than running a PnR with Gobert there instead of Favors and having Crowder or another stretch 4 in the corner and dragging Capela even further away from the rim or having him involved directly in the PnR and having to potentially tail a play if Mitchell gets around him.

If your point is Gobert/Favors has value then I would agree, but in a playoff series against teams that excel in small ball they're simply not a pairing you can play big minutes together regardless of who you have on the perimeter to create, which is what I thought you original point was around Favs getting less minutes because Rubio was hurt.
 
Like you could play lineups with Favs at the 5 instead of Gobert and they might even be more effective against the Rockets if they're constantly getting Rudy out on the perimeter and attacking him there/negating his ability to protect the rim since you can make Capela have to respect the Pick n Pop option with Favors that isn't a threat with Gobert offensively. You just can't play both together since the goal of attacking the Rockets defense is to get Capela as far away from the rim as possible (similar to how teams with stretch 5s have shredded the Jazz' defense this year by dragging Rudy away from the rim).
 
Sandman822 said:
Capela coming over to help on Favs isn't really a disadvantageous state for Capela since he doesn't have to do much to get back to Gobert... it'll work sometimes but it's not a consistent option. Compared to if he's involved in the PnR and gets switched out, the guy that would have to come over and help would be a perimeter guy which is much more disadvantageous for the Rockets since if he doesn't help it's a layup, if he does get help it's a wide open 3 unless the rotations are on point. So if Mitchell is getting to the rim and Capela is chasing vs moving 2ft from Gobert to be in legal defensive position to help, you would much rather the first scenario where Capela is out of position and tailing the play every time.

Your initial point was that Rubio being hurt meant less minutes for Favors which simply isn't true, the Favors/Gobert lineup simply isn't playable against a team like the Rockets in last years playoffs. I do agree that not having a second playmaker to go with Mitchell in the guard spot hurt but it's not like if the Jazz had a Rubio there that Favors instantly becomes playable again. If anything it's even more reason to keep Favors out since the spacing gets even more cramped between Rubio/Favors/Gobert (although Feb - May Rubio was as hot as he's ever been in his career shooting wise so it's a little bit more viable than usual, but still an inferior option to Crowder/Gobert).

Gobert/Favors has value because they're both great players, but the problem is that you can't play both of them together in a series against the Rockets or Warriors, which are the championship standard teams from last year.

Both of those are simply miscommunication errors between a below average defender in Harden and PJ Tucker. It'll work sometimes but you can't tell me that these plays would be a consistently better option than running a PnR with Gobert there instead of Favors and having Crowder or another stretch 4 in the corner and dragging Capela even further away from the rim or having him involved directly in the PnR and having to potentially tail a play if Mitchell gets around him.

If your point is Gobert/Favors has value then I would agree, but in a playoff series against teams that excel in small ball they're simply not a pairing you can play big minutes together regardless of who you have on the perimeter to create, which is what I thought you original point was around Favs getting less minutes because Rubio was hurt.
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I appreciate the thought out post. I mean it IS true (again, straight from Quin's mouth) that Faves was relegated more since they could not create anything outside of Mitch. The "right" lineup for that series that you're touting (Crowder PF, Royce in for hurt Rubio) could not score a lick, so we had to play more Burks, Ex, Neto. And the CAN play against those teams. Again, not saying for anything other than normal minute allocations that Faves/Gobert get and not comparing it to other lineups. But there is a trade off. Think OKC abusing the Dubs old "death lineup" a few playoffs ago with Adams and Kanter.

Also great, defensive miscommunications is what we an offense is looking for.
 
Shaggy said:
Really? Harris shoots the 3 ball better and isn't injury prone. those are the only differences worth mentioning.They both play no D so why is one praised so much and one is hated so much?

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For one thing, one plays and one doesn't. One has teams wanting him one doesn't. There are reasons for that.

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LoPo said:
I have always liked Barnes (maybe it's because we should have had him but those GS bitch asses tanked). I don't think he will walk from $25 million next year.

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I think he might... if he can lock in 20 per for another 4 years he probably should... I think he'd easily get $20M. Might even get the $25M back.
 
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