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Hayward's Woes

framer said:
See that is a solid point, all of this is probably meaningless because the Cavs would have auctioned off Boozer for the latest flavor of the month to put next to LeGM.

Boozer was better than Gooden, no doubt, but I also think Gooden was better than the role he was thrust into in Cleveland. LeBron does crazy things to team dynamics, and this became more pronounced as LeBron got older. I think LeBron coexisted with Wade because that was Wade's team and city, he had no choice. Bosh was kind of wasted (although he was a good luxury.) LeBron is bad at sharing.

Also, Boozer was not a "borderline star." Before his injuries has was a star and actually deserved more accolades that what he received.
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LeBron is bad at sharing? As opposed to what other star offensive player?
Any stats to back up that claim? For his career he averages 7.2 assists per game. Is that more or less than other superstars like Kobe, Durant, Steph, Westbrook, kahwi, harden, AD, etc?
He averages 19.6 shots per game. Again is that more or less than the other superstars.

Then, once we have that info, you have to ask yourself if you would rather have other, less efficient, players taking those shots and handling the ball. LeBron is always very efficient.

Lastly, did any of his teammates from his first stint in Cleveland break out big time after LeBron left? Did that team get better or worse? How about his Miami team? His second time around at Cleveland? Now that he has been out with injury in LA are his teammates looking way better with him not there to screw up the team dynamic? Have the Lakers been winning at a better clip while he has been injured?

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David Ginola 14 said:
Question: do you think that Hayward's difficulties are due to the injury or do you consider him an overrated player?
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Oh hell, Haywood was always a beta. He never wanted the ball late in the 4th, he always played so passive. I never thought he was a max player. Mabey a good 3rd option on a good team but that's it. The Jazz made him the focal point of their offense but barely broke 20ppg. Good riddance.
 
hgb said:
Overpaid regardless IMHO. He's the 6th best paid player in the league, but he's not the 6th best player. Still, for a team like the Jazz, that's probably what you have to do to keep your all-star calibre players.
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I guess the silver lining there is that a big market team like BOS had to pay him too much to get him from us, even though they paid slightly less than Utah would have. The real problem is the KD situation where guys take less than they are worth to form superteams in supermarkets.
 
framer said:
During the whole saga, I almost got the feeling that Boston was just as interested in "stealing" a player than they were about the player himself. I get it. I never really felt sorry for Cleveland losing Boozer. It was a pretty cool thing to have a top grade free agent choose the Jazz over another organization. Haywood choosing them validated them as an organization. I think less thought went into "what exactly player are we getting" and "how does this help us win the East?"

Even at the time, during the conversations with Celtic fans on Reddit, the point was made, why not throw some resources to get Paul George, Butler, or Cousins who are better players? You have the resources to get the best, get the best. "Nope, because we can get Hayward for free and keep our resources!" Like a max salary cap slot isn't a "resource."

It was like totally redesigning the décor of your living room to match the lamp you got a deal on at the yard sale, then discovering the lamp only works with a European power output. for $10 more you could have got a better lamp, that worked with everything you already had, and would be fully functional.

Couldn't happen to a nicer fanbase.
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A MAX salary spot is a resource but they were looking at Hayward as the asset, which they were getting for free.

Could of Flip him for expirings and picks, opening up the MAX spot again while adding multiple 1sts...
 
fishonjazz said:
LeBron is bad at sharing? As opposed to what other star offensive player?
Any stats to back up that claim? For his career he averages 7.2 assists per game. Is that more or less than other superstars like Kobe, Durant, Steph, Westbrook, kahwi, harden, AD, etc?
He averages 19.6 shots per game. Again is that more or less than the other superstars.

Then, once we have that info, you have to ask yourself if you would rather have other, less efficient, players taking those shots and handling the ball. LeBron is always very efficient.

Lastly, did any of his teammates from his first stint in Cleveland break out big time after LeBron left? Did that team get better or worse? How about his Miami team? His second time around at Cleveland? Now that he has been out with injury in LA are his teammates looking way better with him not there to screw up the team dynamic? Have the Lakers been winning at a better clip while he has been injured?

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You just argued 2 opposing points.

But I agree with one of them, Lebron doesnt make his teammates better. If they aren't better when hes not there how exactly have they gotten better?
 
elan_prodigy said:
You just argued 2 opposing points.

But I agree with one of them, Lebron doesnt make his teammates better. If they aren't better when hes not there how exactly have they gotten better?
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They are better with him there. Most players cant literally make a guy jump higher, run faster, shoot better, be smarter, etc when they are not around.

He takes his team to finals every damn year. And his teams are generally full of garbage (other than d-wade and kyrie).

Its just stupid to criticize lebron. He is easily the 2nd best player of all time. A big part of the reason for that is because of how good he is at sharing the ball and how he makes scrubs look pretty good despit being scrubs.


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elan_prodigy said:
Idiot.
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Wow dude really?

Do you know the history of Len Bias? Do you know he was a 1st rounder with LeBron like buzz when he came out?

Do you also realize that Nike got sued by the Beatles label because they released a shoe called Revolution, made thousands of them and had to rebrand them which created the opening for MJ? It is very, very possible that Len Bias playing for one of the two biggest franshises in the NBA would have been the poster boy.

But he died and the rest is history...



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elan_prodigy said:
A MAX salary spot is a resource but they were looking at Hayward as the asset, which they were getting for free.

Could of Flip him for expirings and picks, opening up the MAX spot again while adding multiple 1sts...
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Who is giving up picks for 32 Million per for the next 2 and a half years of Gordon Hayward? List any two moron teams. . .
 
Crawlnstall said:
I can think of a few teams that would make a deal like this...
Knicks
Hornets
Pelicans
Magic
Pistons
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Hornets and Pistons would be willing. They seem desperate enough.

Magic, maybe but remember they are already paying wings Gordon, Fournier and Isaac. They mainly want a PG.

Knicks heck no. Pelicans not with AD leaving.

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