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You're the GM this offseason. What do you do?

LoPo said:
If we gave Memphis $30 million of 2019-20 savings, $36 million of 2020-21 savings, and a 2020 1st rounder, I think we've made a pretty fair offer.
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We wouldn't be "giving" them savings. Trades work because both parties gain what they are looking for.
 
LoPo said:
Neither does a guy like Moe Harkless by himself. Or PJ Tucker by himself. Or Aminu by himself. Or the Morris brothers by themselves.

You don't just give those guys away if you have them and they love your franchise. In the positionless world of playoff basketball, you need those guys.
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The Jazz wouldn't be giving him away. They'd be trading him for a player they want more (as they should).
 
Anyway, here's a good article:

"The Utah Jazz are reportedly expected to initiate offseason trade talks with the Memphis Grizzlies about Mike Conley after failing to acquire the point guard before the NBA trade deadline in February.

Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer reported the update Wednesday, noting "multiple league sources said this week that the Jazz are expected to make another push" for the veteran guard.

Conley bounced back from an injury-plagued 2017-18 campaign to average a career-high 21.1 points along with 6.4 assists, 3.4 rebounds, 2.2 threes and 1.3 steals in 70 appearances this season. Among point guards, he ranked sixth in ESPN's player efficiency rating and ninth in ESPN's real plus-minus."
 
LoPo said:
- Crowder loves it here and we need waves of guys like Crowder to compete on the course of the season. A good team needs SF/PF guys who defend, play hard and can hit 3's. Trading him like a salary throw in is foolish.

- Selling Exum now to "clear his salary" is bad business. I haven't given up on him yet and I know others haven't either. I think he still plays a major role in our future. The guy has skills we need. We should be behind him instead of bashing him.

- If we wanted to trade for Conley AFTER we strike out in free agency and you have made it abundantly clear you want to move on from Rubio and Favors, then just offer Memphis Korver and a 1st for Conley. Without Favors, Rubio, Thabo, and Udoh, we have about $33 million cap space. There is zero reason to give up Crowder and Exum just to get rid of them.
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It isn't an easy call but chill on calling things foolish... Crowder is really replaceable. He doesn't shoot it well and is okay on defense. Sign Demarre Carroll or Jared Dudley to the minimum to replace him.

You include Dante and Jae to clear $15M to upgrade in other places. I'd rather use that money on Jamychal Green and another piece or Rudy Gay or Niko.

Exum hasn't been able to stay on the court and hasn't been good very often when he is on the court... currently he is bad money... has a chance to remedy that, but I wouldn't say it's a good chance. If he was a free agent is he getting 2 years and 18M? Gonna go ahead and say nope. I realize we are "selling low"... but cutting bait with a bad investment is great business... feeding a money pit has some real costs.

It really all comes down to how you feel about Conley as a player... I've always liked him and he just came off of what could have been his best year, but he had zero support. He's just the type of player that helps you win at the highest levels. Think he has a lot of good basketball left. We may not get him for the price I outlined because another team may very well beat that offer... I really like him... you clearly don't.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Anyway, here's a good article:

"The Utah Jazz are reportedly expected to initiate offseason trade talks with the Memphis Grizzlies about Mike Conley after failing to acquire the point guard before the NBA trade deadline in February.

Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer reported the update Wednesday, noting "multiple league sources said this week that the Jazz are expected to make another push" for the veteran guard.

Conley bounced back from an injury-plagued 2017-18 campaign to average a career-high 21.1 points along with 6.4 assists, 3.4 rebounds, 2.2 threes and 1.3 steals in 70 appearances this season. Among point guards, he ranked sixth in ESPN's player efficiency rating and ninth in ESPN's real plus-minus."
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He's never had good wings... he's had coaches that weren't like savants... I just wonder if he could either increase his volume or become even more efficient in an intelligent system with shooting and a great diving big.
 
I don't think the Conley rumor is coming from the Jazz's side. Tony would be talking about Conley more if that were true.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It isn't an easy call but chill on calling things foolish... Crowder is really replaceable. He doesn't shoot it well and is okay on defense. Sign Demarre Carroll or Jared Dudley to the minimum to replace him.

You include Dante and Jae to clear $15M to upgrade in other places. I'd rather use that money on Jamychal Green and another piece or Rudy Gay or Niko.

Exum hasn't been able to stay on the court and hasn't been good very often when he is on the court... currently he is bad money... has a chance to remedy that, but I wouldn't say it's a good chance. If he was a free agent is he getting 2 years and 18M? Gonna go ahead and say nope. I realize we are "selling low"... but cutting bait with a bad investment is great business... feeding a money pit has some real costs.

It really all comes down to how you feel about Conley as a player... I've always liked him and he just came off of what could have been his best year, but he had zero support. He's just the type of player that helps you win at the highest levels. Think he has a lot of good basketball left. We may not get him for the price I outlined because another team may very well beat that offer... I really like him... you clearly don't.
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It is foolish to trade Crowder if we don't have to. If we trade Crowder and then let Favors walk in order to get Conley, guess what we have to go do? Go find a guy as good as Crowder and another guy as good as Favors. That's a whole lot easier said than done.

This whole Conley idea is so flawed. How much longer does he have at a high level? Are we really going to pay $70 million over two years for a guy who was never an All Star? Does adding him guarantee us anything much better than what we've already had?
 
I'm not sure guys really know how good that mother effer was last year... he was in the top 7-10 pgs... does so much of what we need...

Runs pick and roll
Shoots well from outside
Is a mid range assassin and his floater is just deadly... all that in between stuff that DM sucks at Conley is like top notch
Takes care of the ball
Good defender

If Exum was the holdup for reals we screwed up.

Conley is in the same tier as Kemba… Kemba is more durable but a worse defender. The per36 raw numbers are close but Mike is more efficient...Kemba is asked to do more, but plays in a worse conference. If we got the Mike Conley that played last year, with and improved DM I think we are right there... would need a break or two but we'd be right there.
 
LoPo said:
It is foolish to trade Crowder if we don't have to. If we trade Crowder and then let Favors walk in order to get Conley, guess what we have to go do? Go find a guy as good as Crowder and another guy as good as Favors. That's a whole lot easier said than done.

This whole Conley idea is so flawed. How much longer does he have at a high level? Are we really going to pay $70 million over two years for a guy who was never an All Star? Does adding him guarantee us anything much better than what we've already had?
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Jae is a below average shooter and an average defender. The whole idea of including him is to provide some additional value (they don't have to keep him) and to use that space to get an upgrade. He does not have to be in the deal but I'm not convinced there is a lot of excess value on his contract.
 
LoPo said:
It is foolish to trade Crowder if we don't have to. If we trade Crowder and then let Favors walk in order to get Conley, guess what we have to go do? Go find a guy as good as Crowder and another guy as good as Favors. That's a whole lot easier said than done.

This whole Conley idea is so flawed. How much longer does he have at a high level? Are we really going to pay $70 million over two years for a guy who was never an All Star? Does adding him guarantee us anything much better than what we've already had?
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Really so all star games is what we need to measure the guy... he's played at an all star level but happens to be in the western conference so yeah he isn't an all-star like D'Angelo Russell but neither is Rudy so is he worth his contract? It's strange you are pro paying Exum $19m over the next two years but Conley's 67M is a problem.
 
LoPo said:
I would prefer an offseason of Lamb ($13ish), Rozier ($13ish), Favors ($13ish) and a 1st to an offseason of just Conley. To me, that's aggressive thinking over one guy. Maybe it's Favors, Winslow and Olynyk through a trade. Or Beverley, Randle, and Olynyk. To think Conley is going to make that much of a difference is pretty foolish. And I'm tired of giving away 1st rounders to old injury prone PG's who only have a 1 or 2 year contract.
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Just stop. There's not a single GM in the league that would take any combination of the guy's you've listed over Mike Conley.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Jae is a below average shooter and an average defender. The whole idea of including him is to provide some additional value (they don't have to keep him) and to use that space to get an upgrade. He does not have to be in the deal but I'm not convinced there is a lot of excess value on his contract.
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At some point, we have to realize who we are. Through a lack of talent, we have persevered due to the chemistry and heart of the team. Throwing away guys like Thabo and Udoh are understandable. They are overpaid and past it. Rubio is tough because we love him for being such a great guy and teammate. Much can be said for Favors.

We talk casually about just making/letting those guys walk. Two starters and two other key components to the lockerroom. Now, there is talk of just dumping a 5th guy in Crowder who fits the same mold as the other 4. If it's not worth it, then we shouldn't do it. Dumping Crowder to Memphis so we can add Jamychal Green? We are risking more than we should.

We can get Conley without having to dump Favors, Rubio, Thabo, Udoh AND Crowder. At some point, we have to show respect to some guys who love wearing our jersey.
 
Stoked said:
If the changed lottery odds tip the scales into folding and moving than the team was terribly managed and should be moving anyways. The new odds aren’t what should be blamed.

But ok, you hate the new system. Fine. What should the lottery system look like?
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The old way was fine.
 
LoPo said:
At some point, we have to realize who we are. Through a lack of talent, we have persevered due to the chemistry and heart of the team. Throwing away guys like Thabo and Udoh are understandable. They are overpaid and past it. Rubio is tough because we love him for being such a great guy and teammate. Much can be said for Favors.

We talk casually about just making/letting those guys walk. Two starters and two other key components to the lockerroom. Now, there is talk of just dumping a 5th guy in Crowder who fits the same mold as the other 4. If it's not worth it, then we shouldn't do it. Dumping Crowder to Memphis so we can add Jamychal Green? We are risking more than we should.

We can get Conley without having to dump Favors, Rubio, Thabo, Udoh AND Crowder. At some point, we have to show respect to some guys who love wearing our jersey.
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Green is better than Crowder... we can find other good guys... many vets have come and gone and have good things to say. It doesn't have to be Green... it would clear some space to shop for Green and another player or one guy who is a clear upgrade.

We don't have to keep every guy that likes it here. It isn't Siberia... it isn't for everyone sure but let's not act like Jae is changing the narrative on Utah. Rubio is already gone Thabo and Udoh too... so if we want to pass on improving and just keep Favs and Crowder then let's do that... it will stagnate the franchise... sometimes you have to risk good to get great.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Green is better than Crowder... we can find other good guys... many vets have come and gone and have good things to say. It doesn't have to be Green... it would clear some space to shop for Green and another player or one guy who is a clear upgrade.

We don't have to keep every guy that likes it here. It isn't Siberia... it isn't for everyone sure but let's not act like Jae is changing the narrative on Utah. Rubio is already gone Thabo and Udoh too... so if we want to pass on improving and just keep Favs and Crowder then let's do that... it will stagnate the franchise... sometimes you have to risk good to get great.
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You are so dramatic. We can keep Favors and Crowder and still add talent which helps make us progress. Even if we keep Favors at his ridiculous $18 million for next year, we still have $20 million if Korver retires.

Change is coming. It doesn't have to be change everything, but change is coming.

Oh, and Green isn't better than Crowder and most importantly, we don't have Green.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Stop excusing **** franchises. Brooklyn gave up their first round picks for half a decade and made the playoffs this year. Why does constant incompetence give you the right to ruin the careers of more young players?

Why is it always the same teams at the bottom of the standings? Shouldn’t they have figured it out by now? You’re really going to blame the NBA for them sucking? How many chances do these **** teams need?


Me thinks you are just salty that the Lakers got a top 4 pick, and for 5 minutes were legitimately in the running for Zion. This take seems to go against all usual Wes logic.
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Foolishly trading picks for Gerald Wallace was inexcusable. They started to suck and had no picks to make up for it.

This is different. Certain teams like the Knicks, Suns, Cavs and Bulls have their picks. All four teams actually seem to attempt to be building their teams wisely and they have talent. The Knicks drafted three young guys last year who contributed and have others like Smith and Dotson too. Barrett and one (or two) big FA would do wonders there. The Suns have Booker and Ayton and showed some signs of improving the last couple months. Zion would’ve been perfect there. The Bulls have Lauri, Lavine, Carter, and some other youngsters to try to build around. One stud would’ve expedited the process.

These teams are not train wrecks and are running well right now for the most part. Heck even the Kings are too. Most teams have picked up on how to be prudent with available cap money and make smarter moves than they have in the past. And since the NBA is a sport where 1-2 studs ona team means a winning culture for years, it also means ones with no studs could struggle, especially in the West which is brutal. Some teams win a lot, some win and lose fairly equally, some lose a ton. Those who lose a ton lose for the most part because they lack the talent to succeed. The Pels weren’t one of those teams. They aren’t good. But they’re not a bottom dweller and didn’t deserve the pick.
 
LoPo said:
You are so dramatic. We can keep Favors and Crowder and still add talent which helps make us progress. Even if we keep Favors at his ridiculous $18 million for next year, we still have $20 million if Korver retires.

Change is coming. It doesn't have to be change everything, but change is coming.

Oh, and Green isn't better than Crowder and most importantly, we don't have Green.
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I'm not dramatic bruh... Green is better than Crowder... we can get talent with Favs and Crowder but we won't get anyone on Mike's level with that much. Will very likely still have spacing and playmaking deficiencies that will keep us in the 1st and 2nd round.
 
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