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Summer 2019 Roster Discussion

LoPo said:
I think Randle fits incredibly well in our offense. We need another ball handler. It hurts us when we get bogged down because Gobert and Favors can't do anything but finish close.

Our pass to a player in motion offense would work for Randle. Getting him off a screen with a head full of steam is a nightmare for opposing defenses. He can finish, pitch out for 3 or lob to Gobert.

At 24, he is a long term fit at a position where we need more offense since Gobert is so limited.

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I think there are things you could do with him but I don't think he's a natural fit. All depends on price with him. At 4/50M you could have it descend by 5% each year and I think it could become a bargain if he developed and improved on some things. Would leave us some room to do other stuff.

He's not played on winning teams which makes me really nervous. Not all his fault obviously.
 
Because the market could go south on bigs I think Randle could sign a reasonable deal. Unrestricted and NO is limited in how much they can give him because they don't have full bird rights. I can talk myself into him.
 
Maybe if you pair a Randle signing with a Patrick Beverly or Danny Green signing it could work. Let DM, Ingles, Randle handle ball a lot.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think there are things you could do with him but I don't think he's a natural fit. All depends on price with him. At 4/50M you could have it descend by 5% each year and I think it could become a bargain if he developed and improved on some things. Would leave us some room to do other stuff.

He's not played on winning teams which makes me really nervous. Not all his fault obviously.
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I don't understand why people say he isn't a good fit. We just won 50 games with a PF who can't shoot outside of 5 feet or dribble and penetrate. Randle is a much better complete offensive player than Favors and our team desperately needs offense. His weakness is his lack of premiere defense, but he isn't Carmelo on D. Plus, we need offense so much more than another elite defender.

If we got Randle plus a Beverley, Green, Redick, etc, we would be a better team. I'm sure of it.

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If the strategy is going to be to trade Favors for something of value and then replace him with Randle, I'm all for that. I'd still rather have Jabari though. If we're just renouncing Favors to sign Randle then that doesn't make us any better.
 
LoPo said:
I don't understand why people say he isn't a good fit. We just won 50 games with a PF who can't shoot outside of 5 feet or dribble and penetrate. Randle is a much better complete offensive player than Favors and our team desperately needs offense. His weakness is his lack of premiere defense, but he isn't Carmelo on D. Plus, we need offense so much more than another elite defender.

If we got Randle plus a Beverley, Green, Redick, etc, we would be a better team. I'm sure of it.

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I'm not ready to believe in his jumper... last season was really the first real sign of improvement... some have built from there, but others regress or always hang out in the low 30s. Guys play off him, so he doesn't get the gravity respect yet. He could end up doing what Blake Griffin did... though I don't love Randle's form. It's that he's not a natural fit... you have to squint a little and you have to make some assumptions on improvement. They aren't crazy jumps to make imo, but they are jumps.

There are definitely some intriguing things about his game and I think we've got the right coach to unlock his potential. A Randle/Gobert pick and roll could be fun... you have two offensive rebounding monster headed towards the rim... teams might have to bring an extra guy or two just to rebound the miss. So that would have some gravity and open some more things up.

The defense might be Carmelo bad though. Can he get to adequate... does he want to? At 12-15M per year I think it's a fair gamble on risk/reward. Randle was written off in LA... we are now seeing how dysfunctional that franchise is. The have a skeleton crew when it comes to development staff... NO isn't a lot better (Griffin is changing it now). Get a young man who is a hard worker in a supportive smart franchise and see what happens. I don't hate it.
 
David Stern said:
If the strategy is going to be to trade Favors for something of value and then replace him with Randle, I'm all for that. I'd still rather have Jabari though. If we're just renouncing Favors to sign Randle then that doesn't make us any better.
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Depends on price but if contracts are equal I'd much much much rather have Randle.

I'm not sure what we could trade Favs for on a one year $18M deal. Surely not keeping Randle, Favs, Rudy.... you sign Randle then use the excess space to improve elsewhere.
 
LoPo said:
I don't understand why people say he isn't a good fit. We just won 50 games with a PF who can't shoot outside of 5 feet or dribble and penetrate. Randle is a much better complete offensive player than Favors and our team desperately needs offense. His weakness is his lack of premiere defense, but he isn't Carmelo on D. Plus, we need offense so much more than another elite defender.

If we got Randle plus a Beverley, Green, Redick, etc, we would be a better team. I'm sure of it.

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Favors is a terrible fit, so that comparison doesn't really matter. Maybe he fits better than Faves (though I don't he cleans up missed shots, or can run the Ingles pick and roll as well).

But Randle will still be making his hay in the paint, which is where Gobert needs to live as well. Even if it's a 'better' fit. It's still not really a good fit.
 
LoPo said:
I think Randle fits incredibly well in our offense. We need another ball handler. It hurts us when we get bogged down because Gobert and Favors can't do anything but finish close.

Our pass to a player in motion offense would work for Randle. Getting him off a screen with a head full of steam is a nightmare for opposing defenses. He can finish, pitch out for 3 or lob to Gobert.

At 24, he is a long term fit at a position where we need more offense since Gobert is so limited.

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Good post especially the middle paragraph.

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Who has better defense? Randle or Jabari?

Randle is the better rebounder. Jabari is the more natural 3p shooter. Randle is the better ball handler/facilitator.

I think Randle is a safer bet and better long term prospect than Jabari. Seems to be less drama following Randle too.

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Here is a scenario... say we strike out on Tobias... say you can get Randle for 4/60M and he gives us the flexibility to structure it with raises or decreases. We could waive or waive and stretch Korver and end up with around $20-21M in space left. We could chase Brogdon with that amount of money. Make it toxic (3+1 with player option, trade bonus, all the **** that might scare them) They should match, but that is enough that they have to think for a minute. They have said they will pay the tax. They have said they will spend what they need to... but the ownership group has the lowest paid GM by a mile... and haven't given him a raise or extended his deal.. they are in a small market and might be more cost conscious than we realize. Someone should test their resolve here.

We should have backup plans, but I think Beverly/Green would wait if there was good money and a good role available for them here. They might wait for us.

Getting a lower priced guy like Randle or Niko would allow us to do some other things.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Here is a scenario... say we strike out on Tobias... say you can get Randle for 4/60M and he gives us the flexibility to structure it with raises or decreases. We could waive or waive and stretch Korver and end up with around $20-21M in space left. We could chase Brogdon with that amount of money. Make it toxic (3+1 with player option, trade bonus, all the **** that might scare them) They should match, but that is enough that they have to think for a minute. They have said they will pay the tax. They have said they will spend what they need to... but the ownership group has the lowest paid GM by a mile... and haven't given him a raise or extended his deal.. they are in a small market and might be more cost conscious than we realize. Someone should test their resolve here.

We should have backup plans, but I think Beverly/Green would wait if there was good money and a good role available for them here. They might wait for us.

Getting a lower priced guy like Randle or Niko would allow us to do some other things.
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I think guys like Randle and Bogdanovic will be looking for $20 per year. Jabari got that last summer and he never played like Randle last year.

Randle is such a good fit on so many different teams. At Phoenix with Ayton, at Dallas with Porzingis, at NOLA next to Zion, at Utah with Gobert, at Brooklyn, etc.

He will get $20 this summer. The question is, would you rather have Tobias at $33, Randle at $20, Jabari at $18, or Mirotic at $15.

As for proven value and age, Randle at $20 is pretty strong. $13 million is a lot of money to play with.

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I think Mirotic might come kind of cheap and I still think he'd be a particularly good fit here.

Plan A is Tobias and the more I think about it, the more I don't think it's even close. Throw the kitchen sink at making that happen. If it doesn't, pivot to absorbing Griffin or Conley while combing the market for solid FA pieces with priority on the 4, then the 1, then the wing. Informally allocate the smaller of the room exception or remaining cap on a backup 5 (Dedmon would be perfect). Keep an eye on 2021 in all circumstances that doesn't yield a bona fide star.

Mirotic fits into one of those scenarios.
 
LoPo said:
I think guys like Randle and Bogdanovic will be looking for $20 per year. Jabari got that last summer and he never played like Randle last year.

Randle is such a good fit on so many different teams. At Phoenix with Ayton, at Dallas with Porzingis, at NOLA next to Zion, at Utah with Gobert, at Brooklyn, etc.

He will get $20 this summer. The question is, would you rather have Tobias at $33, Randle at $20, Jabari at $18, or Mirotic at $15.

As for proven value and age, Randle at $20 is pretty strong. $13 million is a lot of money to play with.

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Jabari got one year and a second year non-guarantee... so really not comparable to a 4 year deal. Randle might get 20M but I doubt he gets that over 4 years.

$18M is bonkers for Jabari. He might... might get full MLE, but likely gets like one year MLE type money. Niko I can see 12-15M per year.

Phoenix is a terrible fit for Randle... like just awful. They also don't have cap space.

NO can only pay Randle like $10M a year because they don't have his full bird rights and don't have cap space.

Brooklyn might be a good fit... same with Dallas. I could see Dallas overpaying and maybe going to $20M a year for him... I think that's a stretch though.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I think Mirotic might come kind of cheap and I still think he'd be a particularly good fit here.

Plan A is Tobias and the more I think about it, the more I don't think it's even close. Throw the kitchen sink at making that happen. If it doesn't, pivot to absorbing Griffin or Conley while combing the market for solid FA pieces with priority on the 4, then the 1, then the wing. Informally allocate the smaller of the room exception or remaining cap on a backup 5 (Dedmon would be perfect). Keep an eye on 2021 in all circumstances that doesn't yield a bona fide star.

Mirotic fits into one of those scenarios.
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He hit a slump at the wrong time. Cost him some dough. If we got Conley I prefer Niko to Randle... if we ended up with Beverly I'd likely prefer Julius.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I would also knock on Sacramento's door about Bjelica.
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Yes... If I were a GM I'd just call certain teams everyday... just to check in ya know... Sacramento would be on speed dial. I'd also text real late at night... hey Vlade… you up?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Jabari got one year and a second year non-guarantee... so really not comparable to a 4 year deal. Randle might get 20M but I doubt he gets that over 4 years.

$18M is bonkers for Jabari. He might... might get full MLE, but likely gets like one year MLE type money. Niko I can see 12-15M per year.

Phoenix is a terrible fit for Randle... like just awful. They also don't have cap space.

NO can only pay Randle like $10M a year because they don't have his full bird rights and don't have cap space.

Brooklyn might be a good fit... same with Dallas. I could see Dallas overpaying and maybe going to $20M a year for him... I think that's a stretch though.
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You make some good points.

I think Randle gets 3 years $60 million. Maybe 4 years $70, but hard to tell. There are so many teams with max and multiple max space. He is a top 10 free agent this summer due to age, production and potential.

Jabari is a mystery. I was shocked he got $20 last year when there was less money available. I think he definitely gets $10+ which is over the MLE. The risk is worth it.

I wouldn't take Mirotic unless it's a bargain. I don't think he is much more than just a shooter with suspect defense when it gets to playoff time. If he gets $15+ over many years, he will be the next Ryan Anderson before long.

If we strike out on Tobias, Randle, and Jabari, I could be fine with Crowder, O'Neale, Ingles, Niang and a draft pick platooning PF. We just have to improve PG if that happens.

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