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Will You Accept the Findings of the Muller Probe?

Will You Accept the Findings of the Muller Probe?


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I’m in. Anything legal to break the R and D hold on this country.

Proportional works for me. The two that spring to mind are kind of hinted at in that video. Libertarian and Greens.

Libertarian and Green are great as concepts. But have you actually tried to work with the actual Libertarian and Green Political Parties? Each, respectively, is a mess. If we ever get a viable third party, it will be neither of these organizations but a third, entirely different one.
 
gerrymandering could be solved with a constitutional amendment that requires that the map with the fewest miles of "border" must be used. Anyone can propose a map. Quant dudes can writer their sophisticated algorithms, others can use an etch-a-sketch. Easy to find an objective winner. Totally apolitical. Who disagrees?

I do. You definitely have to take population and "communities of interest" into account. This could probably be ameliorated by using county lines and geographical barriers where applicable. Those aren't always straight lines.
 
Because Salt Lake City and Fillmore have the same needs, interests, and geographical location...

This map was redrawn in 2010 to crack the SL valley into different districts to create essentially an all republican safe majority for congress. I guess McAdams sorta threw a monkey wrench into things. Just goes to show how worthless Mia Love and 2018 were for republicans.

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If Trump told you he was running a child sex slave ring and torturing puppies you'd say the same thing.

Come on Joe, we know you have a brain. Please reactivate it after you get past this Trump infatuation.
Hillary was taking bribes... I mean donations... from every foreign entity who knew how to sign a check (please make your contribution payable to The Clinton Foundation), but she is now among the chorus who are having a meltdown that Trump told the truth about how these sorts of things actually work. Oh whoops, I forgot that leftists now believe that pointing to the actions or behavior of any Democrat previous to the Trump presidency, is strictly verboten. What a convenient strategy.
 
Hillary was taking bribes... I mean donations... from every foreign entity who knew how to sign a check (please make your contribution payable to The Clinton Foundation), but she is now among the chorus who are having a meltdown that Trump told the truth about how these sorts of things actually work. Oh whoops, I forgot that leftists now believe that pointing to the actions or behavior of any Democrat previous to the Trump presidency, is strictly verboten. What a convenient strategy.

So, you have evidence of Clinton taking campaign intelligence from global rivals/enemies? No? Just spouting off a false equivalence?
 
Hillary was taking bribes... I mean donations... from every foreign entity who knew how to sign a check (please make your contribution payable to The Clinton Foundation), but she is now among the chorus who are having a meltdown that Trump told the truth about how these sorts of things actually work. Oh whoops, I forgot that leftists now believe that pointing to the actions or behavior of any Democrat previous to the Trump presidency, is strictly verboten. What a convenient strategy.

If you have to defend an action by pointing to the bad, or illegal, action of others you’ve lost the debate. Regardless of how real the action your mentioning is.

What Clinton may, or may not, have done is completely irrelevant. Trump should never accept foreign election dirt. If it’s received unsolicited you report it to the FBI. Period, end of story.

How many bribes Clinton took does absolutely nothing to change that fact.
 
And if Clinton is guilty then produce the evidence and charge her.

If your story is that the only reason she hasn't been charged is deep-state BS then just shut the **** up. She isn't that powerful. She never has been.
 
And if Clinton is guilty then produce the evidence and charge her.

If your story is that the only reason she hasn't been charged is deep-state BS then just shut the **** up. She isn't that powerful. She never has been.

Oh bullet, you’re so brainwashed by the lamestream media.

Hitlery would’ve been charged and there would’ve been plenty of evidence to indict if it weren’t for Hitlery loving James Comey! Comey loves Hitlery and Seth Rich was going to tell the world but he got killed by Hitlery! Just like Vince Foster! George Soros paid someone in the deep state to kill Seth Rich and Hitlery organized it all just like Benghazi and uranium 1 where she collided with Russia to give all our uranium to Russia.

You need to be red pilled, then you’ll see everything clearly.

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I want to point out one casualty of Trump's asinine interview statements. Namely, our own efforts to combat election interference. And I'm really disgusted at how Trump supporters just ignore all this. The only thing that matters is defending their leader. The US? Our elections? Our democracy? Screw that, only protecting and defending the jerk in the Oval Office matters. America First? BS!! It's Trump First apparently. I would like to think well of the people on the other side of our great divide. I really would. But Trump supporters make that increasingly impossible.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/13/fbi-election-interference-fight-donald-trump-1364597

Nearly two years ago, FBI Director Chris Wray set up an office tasked solely with stopping the type of Russian interference efforts that infected the 2016 campaign.

On Wednesday night, President Donald Trump undercut the whole operation in a matter of seconds.

In an ABC News interview, the president first proclaimed he would have no problem accepting dirt on his opponents from a foreign power, then said Wray was “wrong” to suggest the FBI needs to know about such offers.

The comments, according to interviews with nearly a dozen law enforcement veterans, have undone months of work, essentially inviting foreign spies to meddle with 2020 presidential campaigns and demoralizing the agents trying to stop them. And it has backed Wray into a corner, they added, putting him in a position where he might have to either publicly chastise the president and risk getting fired, or resign in protest.

America’s enemies will see Trump’s comments and likely “come out of the woodwork like never before to try to influence the president,” said longtime FBI veteran Frank Figliuzzi, who served as the bureau’s assistant director for counterintelligence until 2012. “And it’s going to be more difficult to defend against because they’ll try harder than ever to mask their attempts.”
 
Hillary was taking bribes... I mean donations... from every foreign entity who knew how to sign a check (please make your contribution payable to The Clinton Foundation), but she is now among the chorus who are having a meltdown that Trump told the truth about how these sorts of things actually work. Oh whoops, I forgot that leftists now believe that pointing to the actions or behavior of any Democrat previous to the Trump presidency, is strictly verboten. What a convenient strategy.

From the "let's talk about something else because I'm losing this argument" playbook. Well played, sir, well played.
 
I do. You definitely have to take population and "communities of interest" into account. This could probably be ameliorated by using county lines and geographical barriers where applicable. Those aren't always straight lines.

A straight line would not necessarily be the optimal solution.

And screw the "communities of interest" -- let the algorithm rule.
 
So, if I understand the Trump defenders here, any presidential candidate, of any political party, if offered help winning the election, by America's number one geopolitical adversary of the last 70 years, would keep their mouths shut about it, and, just as Trump did, (according to Mueller), expect to benefit from it, and even, as Trump did right out in the open, actively support it("Russia, if you're listening...."). Trump defenders would have me believe that this response by Trump would be played out regardless of who the beneficiary of this assistance was. Every last presidential candidate, of any political party, would be happy as a pig in slop to accept help from Russia. This is my interpretation of what defenders of Trump are claiming in this thread.

I don't buy it.

Max Boot, of the Post: "On Tuesday, President Trump said he has such a wonderful relationship with Kim Jong Un that he wouldn’t let the CIA spy on the North Korean despot. On Wednesday, Trump said that if a foreign country provided information to him on his political opponents, “Oh, I think I’d want to hear it. … I think I’d take it." In short, the president of the United States thinks it’s wrong to spy on the enemies of the United States but perfectly acceptable to spy on his enemies.

This is what happens when a crook gets away with his crimes: He is emboldened to commit more of them. Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III did not find sufficient evidence to conclude that Trump’s campaign was guilty of criminal conspiracy with Russia during the 2016 campaign, but he did find ample evidence that Trump welcomed Russian interference and that he obstructed the investigation of that interference."


(Roll that around in your noggin for a minute! That's our president).

More from Max Boot: "Trump tried to minimize the enormity of what he had said by suggesting that it’s just “oppo research” and that all politicians would take such research from any source — “they all do it, they always have, and that’s the way it is.” He is “defining deviancy down,” as Daniel Patrick Moynihan put it — or rather he is defining his own deviancy as the norm. It’s not. I worked on John McCain’s 2008 campaign, and I know exactly what McCain would have done if a Russian lawyer had come calling with “dirt” on Barack Obama: He would have called the FBI. So would any other normal, law-abiding candidate. Veteran political strategist Matthew Dowd wrote: “I have worked on 2 Presidential campaigns, & have close friends who have worked on every major nominee campaign since 1988. The Trump campaign is the only ones that have done this.”.

(And that is exactly what all you Trump defenders are doing, defining Trump's deviancy as the norm, by claiming he's only speaking the truth!)

Max Boot: "He is trolling for any dirt that any foreign intelligence service might have on the Democrats. He is thereby kneecapping the FBI, which is charged with enforcing the laws against foreign interference, just as he kneecapped the CIA by saying that it should not have recruited Kim’s brother as an informant. What Trump said may not be illegal, but it is definitely unethical, unpatriotic — and impeachable. He has once again violated his oath to “faithfully execute the office of president” and “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/06/13/trump-has-bragged-that-he-will-break-law/
 
If you have to defend an action by pointing to the bad, or illegal, action of others you’ve lost the debate. Regardless of how real the action your mentioning is.

What Clinton may, or may not, have done is completely irrelevant. Trump should never accept foreign election dirt. If it’s received unsolicited you report it to the FBI. Period, end of story.

How many bribes Clinton took does absolutely nothing to change that fact.

1. It's pretty well known HC tool foreign money. The point of selective outrage here stands.

2. It's information. Why? What obligation?
 
1. It's pretty well known HC tool foreign money. The point of selective outrage here stands.

2. It's information. Why? What obligation?

Good, great. Selective outrage. Agreed.

Defending anything by pointing to other bad behavior is no defense.
 
A straight line would not necessarily be the optimal solution.

And screw the "communities of interest" -- let the algorithm rule.

In a hypothetical state that was 50/50 rural and urban, it would be better to have 1 urban rep and 1 rural rep rather than 2 of split voters. That way both communities are represented. The other way it is possible that one of the communities is shut out from representation. If there is a certain section of a city that contains a lot of black voters, it is probably a good idea to not split them up over multiple districts.

Additionally an algorithm will have the bias of whoever programmed it. At least with a state legislature dividing the borders, the bias is transparent and can be voted out. Also, keep in mind that there is plenty of bipartisanship when dividing districts as incumbents of both parties will make deals to keep each other in power.

They need a way to have this decided by a 8 year old with no knowledge of politics playing a video game like Ender's Game.
 
Good, great. Selective outrage. Agreed.

Defending anything by pointing to other bad behavior is no defense.

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