El Paso Shooting
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Over sensitive snowflake, tbh. At your heart, you are what you bitch about the most. Subset of "don't fib a fibber", "You WOULD know", and "You don't like X because X is just like you"
I'm sure you are all thinking "My God, Harambe must be Trump". I'm not. I hate hypocrites, which I can admit I am often enough.
jimmy eat jazz
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Narrator: It's not worth anything.
Temporal proximity. If the events of Dayton and El Paso had been reversed in time, the thread title would have Dayton, and the conversation would be much the same.
Sure you can. It's just not a good connection. People use bad connections all the time.
You mean, there's no difference besides the direct connection between the rhetoric of Trump and the El Paso shooter, which connection was lacking between Obama and the three shootings you mentioned.
As I just mentioned, people use bad connections all the time.
fishonjazz
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It is different though. This shooter shows every indication that Trump, and the things Trump says and tweets, influenced him.
That's different than those shooters you are comparing with Obama.
It's not the same
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JazzyFresh
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Many say Obama's was anti cop causing the Dallas massacre on police. You don't remember the outrage of him during his cop speech where he sympathized with BLM right after a member just shot up Dallas?
Its a dog whistle by Obama and a fair one, the right as per usual is better at spin and have rightly attacked Obama to defect the issue. Its good spin and the Republican/NRA hate machine are much better at it than anyone else. The Left or really in the US, Center-Right could learn a lot about spin of these douchebags.
JazzyFresh
Banned
Or the Florida shooter killing gays in the name of Islam. Remember the **** Obama got for not denouncing radical Islam? Or the San Bernardino shooter killing jews at a Christmas party and Obama not denouncing "radical Islam"?
It's the exact same stupid ****, different president.
It's the exact same stupid ****, different president.
So, you will of course now point to Obama calling the Dallas shooter a "very fine person", or saying that the police were invading this country or destroying our way of life. I mean, he said the same things, right?
You mean, the self-hating gay man who shot up an Orlando nightclub, and claimed affiliation with different organizations, many of whom were enemies of each other?
When I see you denouncing radical Christianity (these white nationalists are overwhelmingly Christian), then I take you criticism of Obama as not being hypocritical.
Except, not mentioning a phrase that stigmatizes is sort of the opposite of mentioning a phrase that stigmatizes.
JazzyFresh
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I never once criticized Obama. **** radicalized Christianity and all other forms of radicalization.
My point is that this stupid pointing the fingers at the POTUS **** is stupid from both sides. I have no partisanship blinding me here like you dudes. It was wrong to do it to Obama it's wrong to do it to Trump or Elizabeth Warren in Dayton.
I will put it this way: George W. Bush never referred to people the way Trump does, IIRC. It would be blind partisanship to blame any sort of white nationalist terror acts during 2001-2009 on GWB. I can't recall anything he said that would make that a valid connection (yes, I am aware of the racist actions of other Republicans, even those who campaigned for him).
If anything, Trump is less conservative that GWB was. However, I find it fair to connect Trump's rhetoric to the rhetoric of the El Paso shooter, because the connection is obvious. If you can't see the difference between how GWB talked and how Trump talks, I'm not sure what more I can say to that.
fishonjazz
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This is what my screen showed and I thought you were celebrating some new understanding NPC had. lol
fishonjazz
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I have no partisanship either but it's obvious that Trump needs to be more careful with what he says and tweets since it's obviously emboldening some of these people.
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Trump is saying things that normal presidents don’t. It’s not the same.
Red
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Obama did not want to use the term "radical Islam" because doing so made it too easy to believe Islam itself was at war with the West. He did not want to define it as a religious war. Interestingly, one of Trump's original close advisors, Steve Bannon, went on record as saying we must be engaged in a Great War pitting Christianity against Islam, in order to save Western civilization. And Trump did want to ban Muslims from entering the US.
In the case of the El Paso shooter, in his manifesto he made a point of, in so many words, saying the "fake news" would connect him to Trump. He wanted people to know his ideas developed prior to Trump coming to power. But, at the same time, he must have felt the need to point this out because he KNEW his words would remind people of Trump's words. And for good reason. Like the "invasion" of America by Hispanics. So there is a very clear connection between the two. Trump demonizes the Hispanic "invasion" by "others", and clearly, so did the El Paso shooter.
I believe the citizens of the United States have the right to insist the president not be promoting hate speech, or identifying scapegoats, or "otherizing" minorities. That is the playbook of demagogues playing on people's fears. But, he does so, at most rallies, in some tweets. Doing so can only encourage and embolden white supremisists. It should stop, but scapegoating and "otherizing" minorities seems to be the 2020 campaign strategy he has settled on.
In the case of the El Paso shooter, in his manifesto he made a point of, in so many words, saying the "fake news" would connect him to Trump. He wanted people to know his ideas developed prior to Trump coming to power. But, at the same time, he must have felt the need to point this out because he KNEW his words would remind people of Trump's words. And for good reason. Like the "invasion" of America by Hispanics. So there is a very clear connection between the two. Trump demonizes the Hispanic "invasion" by "others", and clearly, so did the El Paso shooter.
I believe the citizens of the United States have the right to insist the president not be promoting hate speech, or identifying scapegoats, or "otherizing" minorities. That is the playbook of demagogues playing on people's fears. But, he does so, at most rallies, in some tweets. Doing so can only encourage and embolden white supremisists. It should stop, but scapegoating and "otherizing" minorities seems to be the 2020 campaign strategy he has settled on.
Red
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Yes, I understand the distinction, and that the SC upheld his specific ban. That's why I said "Trump did WANT to ban Muslims". Because I thought he originally wanted a more widespread ban, but, I could very well be wrong about that. Maybe he always wanted a ban limited to specific countries.
Archie Moses
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I thought your point was clear and easily understood.