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How white liberals view black voters

Joe Bagadonuts said:
I'm confident that you are vastly under-polling those who agree with me, most of whom are not interested in engaging in these sorts of conversations. A significant reason for their silence is that they are completely unimpressed by the go-to tactic of many liberals, which is to demean and intimidate conservatives for expressing their opinions. Your above post is a fair example.
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I'm not sure you understand polling. You've not posted any actual evidence.

I bet if you start with "These numbers support" instead of "My study(that isn't available anywhere except my head)" you'd have better luck? I mean... you don't need a sign to know that a hill of beans is a hill of beans. But why you'd post a sign for a hill of beans when there's an acorn or two behind it baffles.
 
Harambe said:
I'm not sure you understand polling. You've not posted any actual evidence.

I bet if you start with "These numbers support" instead of "My study(that isn't available anywhere except my head)" you'd have better luck? I mean... you don't need a sign to know that a hill of beans is a hill of beans. But why you'd post a sign for a hill of beans when there's an acorn or two behind it baffles.
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Under counting, okay? That's a better word choice than under polling. And if I wrote, "My study," (which I don't recall that I ever did) it was definitely in a joking manner. As for your hill of beans and acorns story, what in the hell are you talking about?
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Under counting, okay? That's a better word choice than under polling. And if I wrote, "My study," (which I don't recall that I ever did) it was definitely in a joking manner. As for your hill of beans and acorns story, what in the hell are you talking about?
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Hint: I'm very aware you didn't conduct a study. Nor did you read someone else's. Nor do you care for any reasoning than what you've already decided on.
 
Harambe said:
Hint: I'm very aware you didn't conduct a study. Nor did you read someone else's. Nor do you care for any reasoning than what you've already decided on.
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I've read the reports from those who claim ID is an unnecessary complication. I disagree with them. If they were being honest I think they would admit they believe that by offering impoverished people free stuff they will be able to march those people into the polls and extract their votes. The Dems know how effective this strategy has been at earning votes for decades, and they see it as an annoyance that some people believe it's reasonable to ask people to act like an adult (obtain an ID) in order to insure that voting can be conducted fairly and efficiently.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
If they were being honest I think they would admit they believe that by offering impoverished people free stuff they will be able to march those people into the polls and extract their votes.
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So, It can't possibly be characterized as people voting in their own interests. To you, the poor are just natural resource containers, from which to extract things, like votes. Interesting.

Nothing in your diatribe indicated how voter IDs make the voting process fair nor efficient.
 
One Brow said:
So, It can't possibly be characterized as people voting in their own interests. To you, the poor are just natural resource containers, from which to extract things, like votes. Interesting.

Nothing in your diatribe indicated how voter IDs make the voting process fair nor efficient.
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I have explained why ID is necessary ad nauseum. I don't know how you've missed it. And how incredibly ironic to have a lib claim that to me the poor are just containers from which to extract votes. That is precisely and unquestionably what the Democrat party has been doing for decades.

To me the poor are people, just like people of any other class, who ought to get IDs, educate themselves about candidates, and vote for the ones who will ultimately do them the most good in the real world. IMO, if they did that the Dems would have to scramble to reposition their platforms because it doesn't take very much research at all to figure out that as attractive as giving out free stuff sounds, it never works out well for anybody (including those who assume they will be on the receiving end).
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I have explained why ID is necessary ad nauseum.
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You've been wrong, ad nauseum. For example, you have not shown how voter ID is in any way superior to an ID mailed to the voter by the board of elections, or just plain old verbal ID.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
And how incredibly ironic to have a lib claim that to me the poor are just containers from which to extract votes. That is precisely and unquestionably what the Democrat party has been doing for decades.
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It's pretty amusing how the concept of genuinely trying to better the lives of people is so foreign to you that you can't conceive of it as a motive.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
IMO, if they did that the Dems would have to scramble to reposition their platforms because it doesn't take very much research at all to figure out that as attractive as giving out free stuff sounds, it never works out well for anybody (including those who assume they will be on the receiving end).
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I'm not sure how you define "well", but it works out better than "let them starve".
 
One Brow said:
You've been wrong, ad nauseum. For example, you have not shown how voter ID is in any way superior to an ID mailed to the voter by the board of elections, or just plain old verbal ID.



It's pretty amusing how the concept of genuinely trying to better the lives of people is so foreign to you that you can't conceive of it as a motive.



I'm not sure how you define "well", but it works out better than "let them starve".
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Giving government handouts does not equal lifting people up. I know it has the appearance of doing the right thing when you pass out benefits to people simply because they exist, but it does not do them any long-term favors. Teaching people to stand with their hand out is not a good life strategy. Promising government handouts that won't ever be realized, in order to get votes, is even worse.

What I don't think is working out "well" is the liberal approach (partially described above) taken for so many years in places like Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, etc. where we see the situation worsening year after year. School standards are ridiculously low. Policing is ineffective, partly because the police are on notice that any interaction is going to be judged on racial terms. Many families are a disaster, often because misguided policies encourage men to leave which creates dangerous and cyclical cultural norms.

I know that these problems are challenging and complex. I believe that they become even more challenging when we implement government policies that create a culture of dependency. IMO, it is much better to give a hand up than a hand-out. We need teachers with high expectations, police who can confidently become involved in their communities, leaders who inspire people to work and to improve their communities, volunteers who set an example at ground level, and much more. I know many, many people who have overcome poverty and become financially independent, and I believe similar routes remain open to anyone determined to better their situation. The saddest thing to me is that some people no longer believe in the American Dream. As with anything these sorts of thoughts are self-fulfilling prophecies. I do not believe that it is too late to chart a better course.
 
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