How white liberals view black voters

[One Brow]

Personally I'd prefer to pay for myself for small expenses and become part of a collective for catastrophic expenses. IMO, anyone who thinks that interjecting government into the middle of healthcare is going to result in price or service improvements hasn't been paying a great deal of attention to what typically happens when government gets involved.

Who runs the collective, and decides which expenses are covered or not?

When you've got a kid whose finger has swelled to twice the normal size, how many different service providers are you planning on visiting before you pay someone, to make sure you get the best price?

Getting health care is very different from buying a TV, car, or home. Sometimes, minutes matter and the patients are not in the place to make calm, rational decisions. What typically happens when the free market dominates health care is that the health care is terrible.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'd rather have consumers run it. One of the many reasons that healthcare is expensive is that unlike most items, we don't often shop for, pay for, or even know what the service costs. We allow a health insurance company to stand between us and our healthcare providers. At this point they won't honor the same price for us as they will for the insurance companies even if we go directly. Essentially we've allowed an unknown profit center to step in as the middleman for our healthcare industry. Personally I'd prefer to pay for myself for small expenses and become part of a collective for catastrophic expenses. IMO, anyone who thinks that interjecting government into the middle of healthcare is going to result in price or service improvements hasn't been paying a great deal of attention to what typically happens when government gets involved.

Who runs the collective, and decides which expenses are covered or not?

When you've got a kid whose finger has swelled to twice the normal size, how many different service providers are you planning on visiting before you pay someone, to make sure you get the best price?

Getting health care is very different from buying a TV, car, or home. Sometimes, minutes matter and the patients are not in the place to make calm, rational decisions. What typically happens when the free market dominates health care is that the health care is terrible.

Both of these are good posts though very different perspectives

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[Red]

At least we don't have debtor's prisons anymore....

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/08/medical-bill-debt-collection/596914/

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

What typically happens when the free market dominates health care is that the health care is terrible.

This is absolutely untrue.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Who runs the collective, and decides which expenses are covered or not?

There are very successful and highly rated collectives running right now, mostly through religious organizations. There is no reason that a non-religious organization couldn't copy their model. It is not difficult to run a collective more efficiently than an insurance company. In a typical health insurance company the loss ratio is 80-85%, meaning that 15-20% of premiums are skimmed off the top to run the insurance company. That portion of your premium doesn't go to medical bills at all. In a collective the operational expenses are usually a fraction of that.

 

[LogGrad98]

There are absolutely government run health Care program that function very effectively and efficiently. Just gotta take off the blinders and see.

 

[Stoked]

There are absolutely government run health Care program that function very effectively and efficiently. Just gotta take off the blinders and see.

There completely are. Problem is that I have very little faith in DC not to F it up under the current game.

 

[One Brow]

This is absolutely untrue.

Except, it's completely true where you look at places with little or no government regulations on health care.

 

[One Brow]

There are very successful and highly rated collectives running right now, mostly through religious organizations. There is no reason that a non-religious organization couldn't copy their model. It is not difficult to run a collective more efficiently than an insurance company. In a typical health insurance company the loss ratio is 80-85%, meaning that 15-20% of premiums are skimmed off the top to run the insurance company. That portion of your premium doesn't go to medical bills at all. In a collective the operational expenses are usually a fraction of that.

By contrast, the collectives don't have the negotiating power of the insurance companies, and so don't get the types of discounts they do. You're replacing a entity that produces profits and gets discounts with one that produces no profits and gets no discounts. That's very communist of you.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

By contrast, the collectives don't have the negotiating power of the insurance companies, and so don't get the types of discounts they do. You're replacing a entity that produces profits and gets discounts with one that produces no profits and gets no discounts. That's very communist of you.

I'm welcoming the addition of an entity that many consumers are very happy with to a market that already includes an entity that many consumers are unhappy with. That's very capitalist of me. If some people want to continue getting their healthcare from insurance companies that's fine with me. I don't think your point about discounts holds any water at all. It appears to me that the cooperatives are very successful in negotiating discounts.

 

[One Brow]

I'm welcoming the addition of an entity that many consumers are very happy with to a market that already includes an entity that many consumers are unhappy with. That's very capitalist of me.

Naturally, your faith in capitalism requires that you not recognize when you reject it. I understand.

If some people want to continue getting their healthcare from insurance companies that's fine with me. I don't think your point about discounts holds any water at all. It appears to me that the cooperatives are very successful in negotiating discounts.

Indeed? Are you then limited to using the providers that the cooperatives have negotiated discounts with, or wind up paying extra for going outside their scope of arranged discounts? You are making this sound more and more like a non-profit health insurance company.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Naturally, your faith in capitalism requires that you not recognize when you reject it. I understand.

Oh man, you got me there. Capitalism doesn't allow consumers to scan the marketplace and select the service that they believe best meets their needs does it? Oh wait, that's exactly what capitalism does.

Indeed? Are you then limited to using the providers that the cooperatives have negotiated discounts with, or wind up paying extra for going outside their scope of arranged discounts? You are making this sound more and more like a non-profit health insurance company.

What do you have against building upon existing ideas? It is no surprise that large health organizations would offer discounts to large groups. Some doctors are now offering similar discounts to individuals. For example, I got tired of paying high premiums for dental insurance, feeling that I wasn't getting much at all for my expenses other than the negotiated discount. I told my dentist how I felt. He made the offer to extend those same discounts to me (and sometimes even better pricing) so I now purchase my services directly from him with no insurance company involvement.

 

[One Brow]

What do you have against building upon existing ideas? It is no surprise that large health organizations would offer discounts to large groups. Some doctors are now offering similar discounts to individuals. For example, I got tired of paying high premiums for dental insurance, feeling that I wasn't getting much at all for my expenses other than the negotiated discount. I told my dentist how I felt. He made the offer to extend those same discounts to me (and sometimes even better pricing) so I now purchase my services directly from him with no insurance company involvement.

I have no objection to you choosing the health insurance company you prefer (which your collective basically is), or your piggybacking off the work of other health insurance companies did in dealing with your dentist. Your notion that this represents the activities of a free market in regarding health care providers is your own religion, and who am I to judge that?