Trump abandons Kurdish allies to Turkish invasion

[Deleted member 365]

Forgive me because this is a copy/paste of a response I posted on FB.

It's one thing to say we should not be involved "over there." It's another thing to get involved, find people who are willing to work with us, tell them that if they "go there" and do "that" we will have their backs. Then when they get there we make an agreement with another country to step aside while they massacre them because they are in the place we asked them to be.

As a military vet I find that to be shameful. Don't we have any honor? None? We led those Kurds to slaughter under the lie that we were their friends. That's not the same as not being involved. That's us being an accomplice to their murder.

Also, this just happened:

The Pentagon confirmed Friday that US troops in Syria "came under artillery fire from Turkish positions" and demanded that Turkey halt all operations that could require the US to take "immediate defensive action."

One US official told CNN the US does not believe the Turkish shelling near US troops posted near Kobani was an accident and that it was likely designed to chase the US from the area. The US has previously announced that it gave Turkey "explicit grid coordinate detail" of US positions in Syria.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/11/politics/turkey-artillery-fire-us-syria/index.html

But Great Leader is soooooooo concerned with American lives, right?

To me it’s obvious what happened. Trump loves/respects authoritarians, Erdogan is definitely that. And trump has personal business concerns. The narcissist values his own money over the well-being of our country and it’s allies.

Most of the crap I’m seeing posted on this website and on Facebook right now could be avoided if lazy people took 10 mins to read about impeachment or read about current affairs.

 

[Stoked]

Also again, what message does this send to countries like Estonia, South Korea, Australia and Israel?

If I was a foreign leader and my country had gotten into bed with America defensively I’d be pulling a Russia 2016 and going hard at getting a trump voted out in 2020 and looking at any/all other defense options.

 

[lauriandres]

Also again, what message does this send to countries like Estonia, South Korea, Australia and Israel?

If I was a foreign leader and my country had gotten into bed with America defensively I’d be pulling a Russia 2016 and going hard at getting a trump voted out in 2020 and looking at any/all other defense options.

Regarding the general situation about the middle East region - Estonia (both when talking with friends or in general and media) are as divided as people in USA. And that is since the soviet time and has got more active since 9/11. Some like Israel, some like Palestine. Some like US troops (both in Middle-East and at the NATO bases in Estonia) and some do not. Of course, flame wars are as strong as the usual oldschool Windows vs Mac debates. In general, most of those who have visited Iran - have liked it.

At 2011 i had an separate birthday party (i.e month later after my correct birthday) with 2 female friends. One of them brought along her work related visitor from Palestine. Ordinary looking family man around my age (36 at that time). We had very nice conversation, lots of drinks. We had dinner at the local russian restaurant so of course several rounds vodka shots were consumed by everybody. I got answers for my direct questions. For example, if i understood correctly, even Palestine has a feud inside similar that is between Democrats and republicans.

As a foreigner i have always considered that as long as the voting process has been legal (i.e nobody threatened a specific voter to vote a specific candidate) then i have no beef about who is the POTUS.
I have supported all the POTUSes since the Reagan time (as much or less as a citizen from a tiny country can do it). I have seen the damage done by soviet army, some of grand-grand relatives were deported to Gulags. So should NATO heavy troops leave - probably would not be catastrophe, but i would have no problems should there be a bigger base near the Russian border. Of course, the Russia would not like it , but i guess that Germans would like it. Probably it is cheaper to keep a NATO/US military base in Estonia than in Germany, Italy or France due the population density.

IMHO the sad part about US is that the country which has brought us a lot of high tech stuff has for some reason (according to posters here) a lot of people who vote a specific person because they believe Russian propaganda (assuming that it is true, that Russia influenced the elections). Maybe i have got enough soviet life, but for me it is pretty hard to understand why should a typical american person believe anything that is directly or indirectly published or pushed by Russian media, agents etc. Hard to believe that the general knowledge is as real as South Park and Grand Theft Auto portray it.

 

[Gameface]

Regarding the general situation about the middle East region - Estonia (both when talking with friends or in general and media) are as divided as people in USA. And that is since the soviet time and has got more active since 9/11. Some like Israel, some like Palestine. Some like US troops (both in Middle-East and at the NATO bases in Estonia) and some do not. Of course, flame wars are as strong as the usual oldschool Windows vs Mac debates. In general, most of those who have visited Iran - have liked it.

At 2011 i had an separate birthday party (i.e month later after my correct birthday) with 2 female friends. One of them brought along her work related visitor from Palestine. Ordinary looking family man around my age (36 at that time). We had very nice conversation, lots of drinks. We had dinner at the local russian restaurant so of course several rounds vodka shots were consumed by everybody. I got answers for my direct questions. For example, if i understood correctly, even Palestine has a feud inside similar that is between Democrats and republicans.

As a foreigner i have always considered that as long as the voting process has been legal (i.e nobody threatened a specific voter to vote a specific candidate) then i have no beef about who is the POTUS.
I have supported all the POTUSes since the Reagan time (as much or less as a citizen from a tiny country can do it). I have seen the damage done by soviet army, some of grand-grand relatives were deported to Gulags. So should NATO heavy troops leave - probably would not be catastrophe, but i would have no problems should there be a bigger base near the Russian border. Of course, the Russia would not like it , but i guess that Germans would like it. Probably it is cheaper to keep a NATO/US military base in Estonia than in Germany, Italy or France due the population density.

IMHO the sad part about US is that the country which has brought us a lot of high tech stuff has for some reason (according to posters here) a lot of people who vote a specific person because they believe Russian propaganda (assuming that it is true, that Russia influenced the elections). Maybe i have got enough soviet life, but for me it is pretty hard to understand why should a typical american person believe anything that is directly or indirectly published or pushed by Russian media, agents etc. Hard to believe that the general knowledge is as real as South Park and Grand Theft Auto portray it.

Please post more. A lot more.

 

[silesian]

Also again, what message does this send to countries like Estonia, South Korea, Australia and Israel?

If I was a foreign leader and my country had gotten into bed with America defensively I’d be pulling a Russia 2016 and going hard at getting a trump voted out in 2020 and looking at any/all other defense options.

The hope is that these betrayals are associated with trump and less with America, and that once trump is gone and we have a competent and honorable person in the White House, we can restore respect and credibility with our allies. Could take some time to rectify this fiasco.

 

[silesian]

IMHO the sad part about US is that the country which has brought us a lot of high tech stuff has for some reason (according to posters here) a lot of people who vote a specific person because they believe Russian propaganda (assuming that it is true, that Russia influenced the elections). Maybe i have got enough soviet life, but for me it is pretty hard to understand why should a typical american person believe anything that is directly or indirectly published or pushed by Russian media, agents etc. Hard to believe that the general knowledge is as real as South Park and Grand Theft Auto portray it.

great post thank you.

The people who fell for the Russian propaganda were not aware it was Russian propaganda. And after it has been proven that much of what they were reading was from Russia, the response is denial (trump to this day does not accept the truth) or indifference: Russians did it but I would have voted for trump anyway. And on the latter point, there is no way to know how the election would have turned out without Putin’s plan to manipulate voters to vote for trump. If one voter in ~20,000 was influenced, the election could have gone the other way. That is ~0.005%. Go to a Bees game (minor league baseball). It takes one person in the crowd to be influenced to vote for trump.

So maybe it is possible that Putin’s efforts had absolutely no effect. It is just not very likely.

So Putin wins, America loses.

Sad story.

 

[Deleted member 365]

great post thank you.

The people who fell for the Russian propaganda were not aware it was Russian propaganda. And after it has been proven that much of what they were reading was from Russia, the response is denial (trump to this day does not accept the truth) or indifference: Russians did it but I would have voted for trump anyway. And on the latter point, there is no way to know how the election would have turned out without Putin’s plan to manipulate voters to vote for trump. If one voter in ~20,000 was influenced, the election could have gone the other way. That is ~0.005%. Go to a Bees game (minor league baseball). It takes one person in the crowd to be influenced to vote for trump.

So maybe it is possible that Putin’s efforts had absolutely no effect. It is just not very likely.

So Putin wins, America loses.

Sad story.

Exactly. Just two days ago @Jazzta was denying that Russia interfered in our 2016 election. I understand back in 2016 for ignorant people falling for Facebook ads spreading disinformation. But people who still claim that Russia didn’t attack us are being purposefully deceitful.

 

[Deleted member 365]

So much winning

 

[Deleted member 365]

As most of us predicted, Donald got rolled by his dictator buddies:



America is getting its *** kicked by dictators everywhere.

 

[lauriandres]

The hope is that these betrayals are associated with trump and less with America, and that once trump is gone and we have a competent and honorable person in the White House, we can restore respect and credibility with our allies. Could take some time to rectify this fiasco.

Again, why should i or my country due the Trump's actions (mainly words and orders) lose a trust to US army leaders? By leaders i mean persons who are considered gurus in US army and do not have any military medals or honors due to beautiful eyes or right connections. I highly doubt that for example those who are specialists in Navy a la captains and officers in aircraft carrier are now thanks to Trump somehow totally clueless when doing missions. A la crashing big carrier in Suez Canal or do not know anymore the difference between A10 Warthog and Super Hornet.
Regarding the relationships between Kurds and Turkey - IMHO the best solution would be that again people from other countries show the displeasure with their wallets - i.e not visiting Turkey as tourist.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Bad news but oh so predictable:





After turkey ends up killing some American troops can we finally give up this charade that Donald cares about american lives? Can we compel Pompeo to testify for 10 hrs in Congress? Will they release Donald’s phone call to Erdogan so we can know how Donald personally benefitted from our troop relocation?

This corrupt admin has some explaining to do.

I’m glad Lil Marco recognizes how awful the situation is. But why isn’t he blaming the man who created this disaster?

 

[Zombie]

We need to get our nukes out of Turkey and Trump out of the White House. This has the potential to escalate.