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Can the Emmanuel Mudiay and Jeff Green experiments please end.

Hitman said:
There's that vague 'doing stuff' again, as though that actually means something. You and all the Exum haters can analyse Exum's game to the nth degree, and highlight his every miscue, real or imagined, but you let Mudiay off the hook with 'he contributes' or 'he does stuff'.

Here's an example: Today Mudiay checked in to the game and with his first touch, turned the ball over before he crossed halfway and gave up a Burks dunk. If Exum had done that, it would have been three pages of posts in the game thread about how he can't dribble, but Mudiay does it? Not a single mention. Against Memphis, Mudiay started a drive, lost control of his dribble while not being guarded and it went out of bounds. Again, not a peep. And it's not like he never makes mistakes. He has 28 assists to 25 turnovers.

So what stuff does he do? He doesn't move the ball, and that's not just the eye test, stats back it up - he has the 3rd highest usage rate on the team, after DM and Bogey, and his USG is almost double that of Ingles. 1 in 5 of his possessions end in a TO. He takes proportionately more mid-range shots - the least efficient shot in basketball - than anyone on the team (although to be fair he makes them at a better rate than anyone, too, but they're still bad shots). And his 3Pt% is 28%. And as mentioned, he turns the ball over a lot.
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Mudiay has an irrititating style of play but he's been positive in most of the games he played for us so far. It's not some abstract "stuff", he really contributes. And he is on minimum contract here. Exum cost us a season tanking, 5 years and fat paycheck, hasn't contribute so far nearly at all so don't be surprised that he is hated by some. And to be fair Mudiay has earned his own hate thread already so it's not like he isn't criticized.
 
Jingled said:
You're right, I probably went a little overboard. I just get so frustrated watching the second unit. The lack of ball movement when Mudiay and Green are on the court drives me up the wall.
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Right... even when it works it just doesn’t feel good.
 
Hitman said:
There's that vague 'doing stuff' again, as though that actually means something. You and all the Exum haters can analyse Exum's game to the nth degree, and highlight his every miscue, real or imagined, but you let Mudiay off the hook with 'he contributes' or 'he does stuff'.

Here's an example: Today Mudiay checked in to the game and with his first touch, turned the ball over before he crossed halfway and gave up a Burks dunk. If Exum had done that, it would have been three pages of posts in the game thread about how he can't dribble, but Mudiay does it? Not a single mention. Against Memphis, Mudiay started a drive, lost control of his dribble while not being guarded and it went out of bounds. Again, not a peep. And it's not like he never makes mistakes. He has 28 assists to 25 turnovers.

So what stuff does he do? He doesn't move the ball, and that's not just the eye test, stats back it up - he has the 3rd highest usage rate on the team, after DM and Bogey, and his USG is almost double that of Ingles. 1 in 5 of his possessions end in a TO. He takes proportionately more mid-range shots - the least efficient shot in basketball - than anyone on the team (although to be fair he makes them at a better rate than anyone, too, but they're still bad shots). And his 3Pt% is 28%. And as mentioned, he turns the ball over a lot.
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He scores, rebounds, and can create for others at times. He’s been fine on defense.

His turnovers aren’t great. His tunnel vision sucks... but throughout Dante’s career he has consistently committed the exact type of turnovers you are describing but doesn’t do much when he’s out there.

I don’t love either guys game. I’m not a hater... I would like nothing more than for Dante to become half the player his homers think he is.
 
Jingled said:
Mudiay also can't shoot and is even worse at running the team. The guy can score, I'll give him that, but he's not running the offense or making his teammates better at all.
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Worse at running the team ? Exum does nothing, nothing at all. Mudiay gives us something, his scoring gives us a chance to win. Exum holds our team back from getting to the next level, he is a scrub.
 
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Hitman said:
There's that vague 'doing stuff' again, as though that actually means something. You and all the Exum haters can analyse Exum's game to the nth degree, and highlight his every miscue, real or imagined, but you let Mudiay off the hook with 'he contributes' or 'he does stuff'.

Here's an example: Today Mudiay checked in to the game and with his first touch, turned the ball over before he crossed halfway and gave up a Burks dunk. If Exum had done that, it would have been three pages of posts in the game thread about how he can't dribble, but Mudiay does it? Not a single mention. Against Memphis, Mudiay started a drive, lost control of his dribble while not being guarded and it went out of bounds. Again, not a peep. And it's not like he never makes mistakes. He has 28 assists to 25 turnovers.

So what stuff does he do? He doesn't move the ball, and that's not just the eye test, stats back it up - he has the 3rd highest usage rate on the team, after DM and Bogey, and his USG is almost double that of Ingles. 1 in 5 of his possessions end in a TO. He takes proportionately more mid-range shots - the least efficient shot in basketball - than anyone on the team (although to be fair he makes them at a better rate than anyone, too, but they're still bad shots). And his 3Pt% is 28%. And as mentioned, he turns the ball over a lot.
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What does Mudiay do ? Way more than Exum has or ever will. Exum is a deep bench player or not even an nba talent. He just stands by the 3 point line, looks atrocious trying to create his own shot. Gets burned by Teague every play, you Exum supporters clearly hate on Mudiay because you are bitter to the fact that he stole exum's roster spot.
 
Jingled said:
Mudiay also can't shoot and is even worse at running the team. The guy can score, I'll give him that, but he's not running the offense or making his teammates better at all.
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Just sharing a different perspective on Mudiay. If your a Jazzfan and you expected him to be a great shooter, your going to be disappointed. The Jazz never signed him with the expectations that he would be a great shooter. Why would anyone expect that when he has a 6 year track record of not being a great shooter? We signed him because he is known as a slashing point guard who can draw defense in and kick out to a shooter. That's also why we added wings that can shoot the ball.
And of course he can't run the offense, we knew that when we signed him. When you heard that we signed Mudiay did you really think he was going to provide leadership, make surrounding players better, and run the offense? He singed for $1.7 million a year! Guys that can shoot, run the offense and make players better get paid $25 million a year or more. Why are fans expectations so high for a $1.7 million a year guy?
Let's look at what he does well. He's a motor that gets the ball up and down the court without an issue and can surprise the defense from time to time. And he does a damn good job for $1.7 million a year. He's a true asset that's cheap and doesn't cost us much.
 
If Mudiay was the starting pg, his style of play and tunnel vision would upset me, but he’s exactly what I want coming off the bench, a gunner that can put the ball in the hoop. A guy who can come in 15
-20 min and just start scoring and putting pressure on the other teams bench. That’s his role. We’ve got Ingles to run the offense.
 
Lakers_Slapper said:
Why would anyone expect that when he has a 6 year track record of not being a great shooter?
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That's the second guy mentioning 6 years, am I missing something? This is Mudiay's 5th year in NBA, he is 1 year younger than Exum... what extra years you guys are counting?
 
Thee jazz fan said:
If Mudiay was the starting pg, his style of play and tunnel vision would upset me, but he’s exactly what I want coming off the bench, a gunner that can put the ball in the hoop. A guy who can come in 15
-20 min and just start scoring and putting pressure on the other teams bench. That’s his role. We’ve got Ingles to run the offense.
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U just don't get it. SMH. It might good for mudiay having tunnel vision. But it's not good for the other players on the court with him. What rythym do the other plays have.
 
Jazz said:
U just don't get it. SMH. It might good for mudiay having tunnel vision. But it's not good for the other players on the court with him. What rythym do the other plays have.
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Bench played well last night, Mudiay was a big part of that. He had the highest +/- off the bench at +9. He was also more effective than Conley at pg. idiot!!
 
Mudiay is doing good job off the bench.

Still good to have exum for some defensive reasons, but he isnt going to bring the fire power on offense. Hes too limited.
 
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Thee jazz fan said:
Bench played well last night, Mudiay was a big part of that. He had the highest +/- off the bench at +9. He was also more effective than Conley at pg. idiot!!
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Why do you think Joe is out of rythym all the time. Has he ever shot this bad before?
 
MVP said:
That's the second guy mentioning 6 years, am I missing something? This is Mudiay's 5th year in NBA, he is 1 year younger than Exum... what extra years you guys are counting?
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Accounting for leap years and consulting the Mayan calendar.
 
MVP said:
That's the second guy mentioning 6 years, am I missing something? This is Mudiay's 5th year in NBA, he is 1 year younger than Exum... what extra years you guys are counting?
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Yeah my bad, I was the first one to say 6 years. It's 5. I apologise.
 
Jazz said:
Why do you think Joe is out of rythym all the time. Has he ever shot this bad before?
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He's not out of rythym because of who is on the court with him, he's just in a shooting slump. He's getting many of the same good looks he's gotten in recent years. The ball just isn't going in. He'll be fine though. I'm not worried. He had a similar slump at the beginning of last season and as the season went on he got hotter and hotter from the field. He'll dial in that deep ball.
 
SCS said:
He's not out of rythym because of who is on the court with him, he's just in a shooting slump. He's getting many of the same good looks he's gotten in recent years. The ball just isn't going in. He'll be fine though. I'm not worried. He had a similar slump at the beginning of last season and as the season went on he got hotter and hotter from the field. He'll dial in that deep ball.
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I disagree
 
Jazz said:
I disagree
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Well, cold hard stats agree with me. Over 35% of his shots this season have come with 6+ feet of space or wide open according to NBA.com stats. He's averaging 2.2 3 point field goal attempts per game that have 6+ feet of space or wide open and only making 32% of them so far.

He's getting looks. Not making them.... yet.
 
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