SI picks Utes to win PAC12 South.

[SaltyDawg]

I'm interested to see how this all works out.

From the interviews with Holmoe this week, he sounded like BYU didn't care about joining another conference. that Ind is somewhat of an ends instead of a means.

Of course, he was probably just playing it safe. If it gets out that BYU desperately wants to join a big conference and they don't/cannot, then they'll really look bad. And this independence thing doesn't look so great.

But if they give off the vibe that ind. was/is exactly what they want, then they don't look too bad (at least, for a while) if they stay independent and wait patiently for the right opportunity to move into a BCS conference.

Realistically, BYU has only 1 BCS conference that might be interested. I think we all understand that the PAC 12 won't ever be interested. And the Big 10 won't either. The Big East, ACC, and SEC don't make any sense for BYU. So it's either the Big 12 or nothing.

When BYU said they weren't interested in the Big 12, I suspect that was only because they did not expect an invitation. If the Big 12 actually invited BYU they would almost certainly accept.

And, to be honest, that invitation may very well be on the horizon. If A&M leaves, I would have to think BYU is on the short list of possible replacements. I would think TCU is probably the #1 choice, but not sure if they dog the Big East like that.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Salty Wrote:

And, to be honest, that invitation may very well be on the horizon. If A&M leaves, I would have to think BYU is on the short list of possible replacements. I would think TCU is probably the #1 choice, but not sure if they dog the Big East like that.

I don't think TCU will ever be invited to the Big 12 as long as Texas is still a member. Bottom line: TCU doesn't deliver any extra TV sets to the Big 12. None of the Big 12 schools want to elevate TCU to Big 12 status, thus having a harder time recruiting against them when the addition does absolutely nothing in regards to expanded footprint. Texas already delivers all of the TV sets in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, and most of Texas for that matter.

I still think that we'll eventually see A&M to the SEC, and Texas and Oklahoma bolt to the Pac12 as the 16 team superconferences start to become a reality. That's a horrible scenario for BYU because I don't see any landing spot for them in a world where the PAC,ACC, Big 10 and SEC are the 4 major conferences. For the record, I'd like to see the Big 12 stay intact and BYU invited to join. Living in the wasatch front with Pac12 and Big12 football going on would be a dream come true for any football fan.

Utah would also become the only in state the west that could stake claim to having 2 different BCS conference affiliations within the state. That would be pretty big IMO.

 

[bigb]

I do think BYU ends up in the Big 12 eventually. Either A&M stays and they expand in a couple years, or they go and bring in BYU. I don't think the end game of BYU is to stay independent indefinitely. They may be saying that, but if the Big 12 offers an invite anytime in the next few years, they will jump.

 

[Scat]

No, my argument is that Utah is better than USC, and even the national media is saying Utah is in the consensus top 2 picks to represent the PAC 12 South in the championship game.

Basically, my argument is that Sports Illustrated's prediction was not far fetched. The rest of the national media has the Utes pretty close to where Sports Illustrated has them.

The Utes are not even in the pre-season top 25. How can they be picked to win the PAC-12 South yet not even be in the top 25 even if it is just pre-season you ask?

Either the "experts" think the PAC-12 is going to blow chunks this year or they are clueless. Salty seems to place a high value on the "experts" opinion so we'll have to go with blow chunks. Congrats, your team is predicted to be 2nd in a conference that will blow chunks.

 

[SaltyDawg]

The Utes are not even in the pre-season top 25. How can they be picked to win the PAC-12 South yet not even be in the top 25 even if it is just pre-season you ask?

Either the "experts" think the PAC-12 is going to blow chunks this year or they are clueless. Salty seems to place a high value on the "experts" opinion so we'll have to go with blow chunks. Congrats, your team is predicted to be 2nd in a conference that will blow chunks.

And congrats to you too. Your team is below the Utes in the preseason top 25, and not even in a conference to have a prayer of winning it.

Just remember, blowing chunks in your opinion or not, the Pac 12 champ goes to the Rose Bowl. And maybe even the national championship, with the second place Pac 12 team going to the Rose Bowl. Yeah, that really blows chunks. Actually, it only blows chunks if you're a BYU fan.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Salty Wrote:



I don't think TCU will ever be invited to the Big 12 as long as Texas is still a member. Bottom line: TCU doesn't deliver any extra TV sets to the Big 12. None of the Big 12 schools want to elevate TCU to Big 12 status, thus having a harder time recruiting against them when the addition does absolutely nothing in regards to expanded footprint. Texas already delivers all of the TV sets in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, and most of Texas for that matter.

I still think that we'll eventually see A&M to the SEC, and Texas and Oklahoma bolt to the Pac12 as the 16 team superconferences start to become a reality. That's a horrible scenario for BYU because I don't see any landing spot for them in a world where the PAC,ACC, Big 10 and SEC are the 4 major conferences. For the record, I'd like to see the Big 12 stay intact and BYU invited to join. Living in the wasatch front with Pac12 and Big12 football going on would be a dream come true for any football fan.

Utah would also become the only in state the west that could stake claim to having 2 different BCS conference affiliations within the state. That would be pretty big IMO.

I think you put way too much stock into the "tv markets" thing. If that was as big of a deal as you say, then they wouldn't care at all if A&M leaves because Texas and Tech already have that market sewn up anyway.

Remember, TCU used to be in the same conference as these guys and have some history with them.

Larry Scott was recently quoted as saying Texas could not be in the Pac 12 with their own tv station, so I think you can rule them out. Teh Big 12 is on the verge of breaking up because of the greed and arrogance of Texas, no way would the Pac 12 put up with it. I know they were on the Pac 12 radar before, but it was also made clear to them that that wouldn't fly in the Pac 12 (which supposedly played a part in them deciding to stay in the Big 12).

I think if Texas does leave the Big 12, it will be to join the Big 10. I don't see them joining the Pac 12.

Another team that could possibly be on the Big 12's radar that nobody is talking about: Boise State. If Texas A&M leaves the Big 12, don't be shocked if Boise State gets invited.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

I think you put way too much stock into the "tv markets" thing. If that was as big of a deal as you say, then they wouldn't care at all if A&M leaves because Texas and Tech already have that market sewn up anyway.

Remember, TCU used to be in the same conference as these guys and have some history with them.

Larry Scott was recently quoted as saying Texas could not be in the Pac 12 with their own tv station, so I think you can rule them out. Teh Big 12 is on the verge of breaking up because of the greed and arrogance of Texas, no way would the Pac 12 put up with it. I know they were on the Pac 12 radar before, but it was also made clear to them that that wouldn't fly in the Pac 12 (which supposedly played a part in them deciding to stay in the Big 12).

I think if Texas does leave the Big 12, it will be to join the Big 10. I don't see them joining the Pac 12.

Another team that could possibly be on the Big 12's radar that nobody is talking about: Boise State. If Texas A&M leaves the Big 12, don't be shocked if Boise State gets invited.

Are you kidding? Conference expansion is almost always about getting more TV sets into your conference. Sorry friend, but TCU to the Big 12 just ain't happening. Ask yourself this: If you're all the Big 12 schools, why invite a school to the party that brings in ZERO extra TV cash and only makes it harder to fight for in-state recruits? This is not just my opinion, these are the exact reasons that the Big 12 has never looked TCU's way. That's probably not going to change.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Two things, first besides concerns over Wynn I'm also concerned about the O-Line, normally the U has a good line but with injuries I've heard and read it may not be as strong as usual. So if Wynn's issues weren't due to injuries last year that only compounds the issue, of course I'm hoping for the best but still a little worried.

Second I also heard on the radio that TCU wouldn't leave the Big East anyway but they could be on the top of the list other then the fact other school's may not want to have to compete recruiting against them. (radio also mentioned similar issues with why some schools like FSU aren't being brought up to join the SEC not TV money but recruiting battles)

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Two things, first besides concerns over Wynn I'm also concerned about the O-Line, normally the U has a good line but with injuries I've heard and read it may not be as strong as usual. So if Wynn's issues weren't due to injuries last year that only compounds the issue, of course I'm hoping for the best but still a little worried.

Second I also heard on the radio that TCU wouldn't leave the Big East anyway but they could be on the top of the list other then the fact other school's may not want to have to compete recruiting against them. (radio also mentioned similar issues with why some schools like FSU aren't being brought up to join the SEC not TV money but recruiting battles)

I'm more concerned about Wynn. Even if he is having an amazing season, he's only 1 hit away from John Hayes taking over at QB and by all reports that's not a good thing. With the O-line, you can patchwork the unit if injuries strike. It's not ideal but you may be able to get by with smoke and mirrors. Coaching plays a big part in that and from what I understand, Utah's new Oline coach is pretty damned good. However, with a QB it only takes 1 hit to ruin a season. Add to that the fact that Utah is now trying to keep Wynn healthy against the likes of USC, Arizona State, and Washington as opposed to Wyoming, New Mexico and UNLV and it seems even more daunting.

Us Ute fans are about to find out what everybody was talking about when they say that Utah has the 1's needed to compete in the Pac12. It's the 2's and 3's where Utah has a ton of catching up to do. While I am a self-proclaimed Ute homer, I try to see things for what they are. With that being said, I don't see any scenario in which Jordan Wynn takes every snap for Utah this season and when he's out, I think it's going to be tough sleding for the Utes. If he ends up missing large chunks of time, I think Tyler Shreve and not Hayes will end up being the guy.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Are you kidding? Conference expansion is almost always about getting more TV sets into your conference. Sorry friend, but TCU to the Big 12 just ain't happening. Ask yourself this: If you're all the Big 12 schools, why invite a school to the party that brings in ZERO extra TV cash and only makes it harder to fight for in-state recruits? This is not just my opinion, these are the exact reasons that the Big 12 has never looked TCU's way. That's probably not going to change.

The PAC 10 may have only considered tv markets when expanding, but that is nto how it always plays out. For example, the Big 10 took Nebraska, not exactly a major tv market. While they took Nebraska, they turned down Missouri- a tv market that they are not yet in.

Also, you are not considering that any expansion would be due to Texas A&M leaving. If tv markets were the only concern, they would not care one bit about Texas A&M leaving because they are already in that tv market with Texas and Texas Tech.

If tv markets are the only concern. perhaps Colorado State, Air Force, New Mexico, UNLV, Boise State, or even San Jose State make sense as they are all new tv markets.

On the other hand, tv markets are probably not as important as you make them out to be and TCU would actually replace Texas A&M perfectly. Not only that, but it would renew some old rivalries.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

Sept 10th and Sept 17th are going to be wondrous days. My yearlong anticipation of Utah football getting scorched back-to-back by my two college teams is almost upon us. It is going to be a nice *** kicking to welcome Utah to the Pac 12 by SC in L.A. and then still reeling they get to come to Provo and get worked. Beautiful days ahead in the college football world.

 

[Scat]

And congrats to you too. Your team is below the Utes in the preseason top 25, and not even in a conference to have a prayer of winning it.

Just remember, blowing chunks in your opinion or not, the Pac 12 champ goes to the Rose Bowl. And maybe even the national championship, with the second place Pac 12 team going to the Rose Bowl. Yeah, that really blows chunks. Actually, it only blows chunks if you're a BYU fan.

This thread is about Utah. Why are you bringing up BYU?

 

[SaltyDawg]

This thread is about Utah. Why are you bringing up BYU?

Because I was "talking to" a BYU fan.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Salty Wrote:

The PAC 10 may have only considered tv markets when expanding, but that is nto how it always plays out. For example, the Big 10 took Nebraska, not exactly a major tv market. While they took Nebraska, they turned down Missouri- a tv market that they are not yet in.

They weren't in either TV market and they chose Nebraska. Bottom line: Nebraska is a lengendary program (much more so than Missou) who added TV sets to their network, added even more prestige to the conference and will give the conference leverage in any future TV talks. Now I know this is tough, but try and keep up with this next sentence: ADDING TCU DOES NONE OF THAT FOR THE BIG 12! Literally NONE of that! Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Also, you are not considering that any expansion would be due to Texas A&M leaving. If tv markets were the only concern, they would not care one bit about Texas A&M leaving because they are already in that tv market with Texas and Texas Tech.

Word is that the Big 12 may not exactly be too concerned with A&M leaving. I'm sure they'd like to keep them and will publicly try to go out of their way to try to keep them but in reality they don't lose TV sets or TV money if A&M leaves. There's even rumors out there that they will not to replace them and go with 1 less member so each member has an even bigger piece of the TV pie.

If tv markets are the only concern. perhaps Colorado State, Air Force, New Mexico, UNLV, Boise State, or even San Jose State make sense as they are all new tv markets.

Now your trying to pigeon-hole the argument in some sort of weak *** bait and switch attempt. I never said TV markets are the "only" concern, but they do happen to be the biggest area of any conference talks. Why should the Big 12 share millions of dollars with TCU and elevate them to a level playing field when the Big 12 gets nothing in return? The Big 12 doesn't need TCU's prestige, Texas and OU don't want to be competing with them for recruits and they already monopolize their TV market.

On the other hand, tv markets are probably not as important as you make them out to be.....

Tell Larry Scott that and I will be smiling ear-to-ear as he laughs in your naive, stubborn face.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Sept 10th and Sept 17th are going to be wondrous days. My yearlong anticipation of Utah football getting scorched back-to-back by my two college teams is almost upon us. It is going to be a nice *** kicking to welcome Utah to the Pac 12 by SC in L.A. and then still reeling they get to come to Provo and get worked. Beautiful days ahead in the college football world.

Ya know whats really funny? Utah could lose both of those games by 500 points and STILL be in contention for the Pac 12 Championship Game, Rose Bowl, Holiday Bowl, etc. Yet the very INSTANT BYU loses their first game there will be no conference title to play for and even if they run the table the rest of the way, they're handcuffed to The Armed Forces Bowl. But go ahead and keep swallowing that drivel that Tom Holmoe and Donko keeps shoveling about you guys being exactly where you want to be. Those late night re-plays of Cougar games on BYUtv is bound to open the recruiting floodgates! I guess as long as there's sheep to be led, somebody needs to lead them.

You were actually right about one thing: Beautiful days ahead in the college football world!

 

[SaltyDawg]

They weren't in either TV market and they chose Nebraska. Bottom line: Nebraska is a lengendary program (much more so than Missou) who added TV sets to their network, added even more prestige to the conference and will give the conference leverage in any future TV talks. Now I know this is tough, but try and keep up with this next sentence: ADDING TCU DOES NONE OF THAT FOR THE BIG 12! Literally NONE of that! Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Missouri would have added a lot more tv sets than Nebraska. And they flat out turned Missouri down. It wasn't an either or situation, they could have taken both of them. They obviously didn't care about Missouri's tv sets. By the way, TCY is in a MUCH bigger tv market (Dallas) than Nebraska, and their football program has been a lot better than Nebraska's recently too. To say TCU adds none of that is completely false.

Word is that the Big 12 may not exactly be too concerned with A&M leaving. I'm sure they'd like to keep them and will publicly try to go out of their way to try to keep them but in reality they don't lose TV sets or TV money if A&M leaves. There's even rumors out there that they will not to replace them and go with 1 less member so each member has an even bigger piece of the TV pie.

The Big 12 doesn't care about A&M leaving?!?! lol, maybe you haven't been paying attention, but the Big 12 is on the verge of collapsing if A&M leaves. The reason we are talking about 16 team super conferences is because the Big 12 is expected to collapse if A&M leaves.

Now your trying to pigeon-hole the argument in some sort of weak *** bait and switch attempt. I never said TV markets are the "only" concern, but they do happen to be the biggest area of any conference talks. Why should the Big 12 share millions of dollars with TCU and elevate them to a level playing field when the Big 12 gets nothing in return? The Big 12 doesn't need TCU's prestige, Texas and OU don't want to be competing with them for recruits and they already monopolize their TV market.

First of all, nobody is elevating TCU at this point. In fact, even though it is rumored that TCU is at the top of the Big 12's wish list, it is also rumored that TCU would decline an invitation. Why? Because TCU is already in a BCS conference. Not only that, but TCU is in a BCS conference without Texas demanding to be the supreme ruler, and without rumors that it is on the verge of collapse. I don't know what makes you think they would be elevating TCU and forced to compete on a level playing field, but the fact of the matter is TCU is already there, and would probably decline their offer. You ask why would the Big 12 share millions of dollars with TCU? The simple answer is because they are on the verge of collapsing if Texas A&M leaves. TCU is in roughly the same market as A&M, used to play in the same conference with these guys (and was pretty close to being in the Big 12 before), has historic rivalries with these guys (they are still considered Baylor's biggest rival and they play every year), and has a better football program than A&M anyway. This is the logical choice to anyone who can get past the flawed tv market argument.

Tell Larry Scott that and I will be smiling ear-to-ear as he laughs in your naive, stubborn face.

Larry Scott? You mean the same Larry Scott that was willing to take Texas A&M even though he already had Texas? I can guarantee you Larry Scott would be all over TCU right now if he was the commissioner of the Big 12. And Beebe has already been rumored to be all over TCU anyway. Seriously, your argument appears to be that it is better to have nobody at all than it is to have the Dallas market (huge) replace the College Station market (which is pretty close to Austin anyway, where Texas is). Why? Because Dallas happens to be in the state of Texas (but nowhere near Austin)? It doesn't make any sense. And it will be funny to see your reaction when it comes to light that TCU has been invited to the Big 12.

 

[Scat]

Because I was "talking to" a BYU fan.

Then start a BYU thread. Your preocupation with BYU is odd. Maybe you're "confused"... do you have a pair of BYU thong underwear?

 

[SaltyDawg]

Then start a BYU thread. Your preocupation with BYU is odd. Maybe you're "confused"... do you have a pair of BYU thong underwear?

If a BYU fan starts talking crap about how bad the Utes conference (Pac 12) is, I will point out how much better it is than independence, every time. I'm not confused about anything. The only one confused was the dumbass BYU fan (you) who started talking about how bad the Pac 12 is.

 

[Safetydan]

The back and forth in this particular BYU and/or Utah thread has been pretty civil.

Color me impressed guys.

 

[Scat]

If a BYU fan starts talking crap about how bad the Utes conference (Pac 12) is, I will point out how much better it is than independence, every time. I'm not confused about anything. The only one confused was the dumbass BYU fan (you) who started talking about how bad the Pac 12 is.

Wow, you know, if I was the little bitch that you are I would run to the mods about how you have insulted me. You know, like you did several months ago when I said something mean about you. Your little crybaby party resulted in my receiving an infraction for insulting another member (you).

Fortunately for you I'm not a crybaby who's feelings are easily hurt so I'll let it slide. That said, if the mods were interested in equal treatment of all members they would "infract" you without the need for me to report this.

That said, I will start a thread just for you to spout your BYU hatred.

Enjoy!