Modernist5
New Member
good for him.
Openly Gay Man Called To Serve in Key LDS Position
- Thread starter Scat
- Start date
I laughed.
It's a step in the right direction, but I think the OP and the article overstates the magnitude of step. The guy is (to my understanding, my dad was actually executive secretary of a ward in days gone by) the fourth most important person in his ward in a strict heirarchical sense. There's 13,601 LDS wards in the United States alone. I don't think any reasonable person would claim that a guy whose somewhere between 40,000 and 60,000 on the depth chart is really in a "Key" LDS position. The article is more accurate on this point by stating that it's key locally, but it's really only visible to people in his ward.
Less clear than you may believe. On the old board I went really deep on Hebrew and Greek translation on this subject once. I suggest you pick your chosen "anti-gay" scriptures and find discussions of the translation process of those passages.
For example there are lively discussions on what the "Sin of Sodom" is and Paul's use of the word "arsenokoitai" in the original Greek in 1 Corinthians is literally untranslatable, much less into anything relating to homosexuals.
If I had to guess, I'd speculate he's referring to the eighth article of faith. It's a fair statement that Mormons believe the Bible has translation errors and conflicts with the book of mormon are generally resolved in the book of mormon's favor.
What I mean is that even a project like that, which would seem to have as much historical significance as religious, would be taboo at most state universities because of the dreaded "R word" (religion). I've been really surprised at how little religiously-related scholarship is being done at state universities. Now, I'm just using that as a general example. I don't know the details of who specifically is assisting with that project... possibly there are some state universities (although I would be surprised). But I've heard of a few such things, research projects at BYU that seemed interesting to me, and worthwhile, but that wouldn't be done by faculty at state schools.
DutchJazzer
Banned
so being gay is a disease acording to the mormon lds 
I thought that the old law (Law of Moses) was superseded by the New Law (New Testament) and that Jesus guy sounds like he isn't too fond of hate or rash judgment.
And if we're going to vehemently try to validate the old law, I think we should elect kicky to go burn down fisherman's wharf...
SHELLFISH IS OF THE DEVIL!!!
What do you say Kicky??? Do it for Jesus...
Anyway, it kind of sounds to me like this guy isn't really giving up his old life style of sweet, sweet sodomy...at least not for very long... it sounds like he's just picking up the pieces after a break-up... dude will be knee-deep in dudes in a couple months... I mean look at him
mmmmm, who wouldn't tap 'dat???
AtheistPreacher
Well-Known Member
This. To give a few brief points:
1) Homosexuality didn't exist as a concept in Biblical days at all. There were men who had sex with other men or boys, but they weren't considered "gay." It simply never occurred to anyone that there was such a thing as a fundamental homosexual orientation/identity rather than just isolated homosexual acts.
2) Some of the words translated as "homosexuality" in fact are referring to anal intercourse, which need not be with a man.
3) For something that is supposed to be such a terrible sin, there is very little in the Bible that could even *possibly* be construed as condemning homosexuality... six or seven passages at most, and many of these are suspect, and all but the Sodom story are very brief one-line or two-line sort of things. Don't you think there would have been more material on this if it's such an important issue? By way of comparison, look at all the Biblical material on adultery and divorce.
4) Most significant of all, I think, for those wishing to construe the Sodom story as one which preaches against homosexuality, is that homosexuality is never identified as Sodom's sin. Sodom does, in fact, become a constant symbol of sinfulness in the OT, one which various prophets refer back to as an example of how not to be. But the sin of Sodom is identified explicitly in several places, most notably Ezekiel 16, as being morally and ethically lax, ignoring the poor and practicing the worst inhospitality. Further, none of the other passages traditionally understood as condemning homosexuality made any reference to the Sodom story... which at the very least would be very unusual, since the Biblical authors liked to tie their teachings back to well-known stories.
Maybe it was so obvious that the prophets didn't feel much guidance beyond Leviticus 20:13 was needed. To put a different way, how many places in the Bible say "Thou shalt not murder"? I know of Exodus 20:13, and without looking it up I think there might be one in Deuteronomy, but I can't think of too many other places.
OK I looked it up. There is one in Deuteronomy: Deut 5:17. And it looks like there are just a smattering of other references; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_murder. Pretty much on par with how many anti-homosexuality references there are. So I think your point #3 is weak.
For what it's worth, here are my thoughts on your other points:
1) If your point #1 is correct, it seems to weaken the "I was born this way" argument of acceptance of homosexuality. Or so it seems to me. But I don't know enough to judge if your statement is accurate.
2) I think this is correct, but doesn't change that homosexual acts (necessarily involving anal intercourse) is prohibited.
4) Last time I researched this (wow, probably 15 years ago), I came up with the same conclusion: the sin of Sodom is two-fold, (a) hedonism, and (b) lack of concern for their fellow beings. However, that doesn't preclude homosexual acts as being included under the hedonism category. There IS, after all, a reason that the word "sodomy" means what it means. And that English word is hundreds of years old (dates to 1300 according to one source I found), so that interpretation had nothing to do with the current battle against the homosexuality acceptance movement.
I read an article a few months ago, about the real sin that Sodom was damned for was an inter-tangling sexually between man and angel.
No I didn't get that from ancient aliens, before anyone asks... it was a CNN article that has since been removed from the site.... hmmmmmm
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Isn't "thou shalt not murder" one of the 10 Commandments, and therefore "so obvious" that, as referenced, no other guidance was needed? But unless I'm mistaken, "no man shalt bang another dude" isn't one of those ten. Again, unless I'm mistaken. I mean, I didn't go to Sunday School or anything.
Horribly flawed logic.
DutchJazzer
Banned
maybe it is not in the ten commandments because it is common sense. it is logical to not do it
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
it's also common sense not to be a dumbass or promote violence but you break that general rule of thumb in just about every post.