What's new

Trade for Jerami Grant

1) Grant was acquired by Denver in the same summer when Bogey/Conley were signed. Denver didn't get to keep him of course, but that's saved for another story. All I know is that they made it all the way to the WCF with him playing a major role.

2) Denver won't trade him to the biggest division rival. Sure. But OKC will, and they did.

3) That's why I said Grant OR Wood. If we chose to spend the money on Grant then of course Wood will probably be out of our reach, and vice versa. But having one of them on the roster is bigger than having both Bogey/Favors, who didn't play a min for us in the playoffs last season and will have much reduced role this year due to their age and conditioning.

And guess what? Grant/Wood will get the "bigger role" they desired on this Jazz team because you know? No Bojan or Favors on this team means over 40 min worth of PT as well as the Jazz's starting 4 spot is now available.
Again, what prove do you have they would want to sign with Utah?

1) Denver traded for him. They had to include a 1st in the deal. That season our trade assets were on the table for Conley (yeah, your "washed up midget" who became an All Star and is playing like one), he was our man all along. So yeah, we were not going to dump a 1st for a one year rental (those assets were not available to begin with)
2) Duh, OKC has been on assest accumulation mode for years. They were no longer contenders at that point and would just trade Grant to the biggest bidder. Again, Denver went for it and lost him for nothing.
3) You should just say Grant for that matter (but again, is only a discussion if two years ago you thought Grant>Conley...did you?). Wood? 0% chance. It's not "probably out of reach". There was no chance of him coming to Utah. Zero, nada. Not even worth talking about it.

I guess hindsight is a blessing when playing GM
 
Grant didn't have the role he wanted in Denver because Denver had enough offensive talents on their team.

That was not the case here.

In summer 2019 before the Bogey signing and the Conley trade, our second best option on offense was Rubio.

So if anything, Grant can take on Bogey's role on offensive WHILE playing respectable defense. And with Bogie and Favors's money off the book, we have enough cap space to work out a contract extension with him last offseason.

But DL was fixated on Mirotic/Bogey/Portis so Grant was never a part of the conversation, so Denver got him from OKC and went on a trip to the WCF.
How do you know we would work out a contract extension? Let's ask Denver.

Why was the FO interested in players like Mirotic or Portis? Because they had expressed their interest in the Jazz (openly and probably behind closed doors). GMs do have more information than you or me. They get to players, through agents, current players, coaches, friends, etc. They would have some kind of idea if Grant would see Utah as a long-term fit before pulling the trigger. Even then, there is always assimetry of information...

Yay! a trip to the WCF. Those are nice. Then Grant left.
 
Again, what prove do you have they would want to sign with Utah?

1) Denver traded for him. They had to include a 1st in the deal. That season our trade assets were on the table for Conley (yeah, your "washed up midget" who became an All Star and is playing like one), he was our man all along. So yeah, we were not going to dump a 1st for a one year rental (those assets were not available to begin with)
2) Duh, OKC has been on assest accumulation mode for years. They were no longer contenders at that point and would just trade Grant to the biggest bidder. Again, Denver went for it and lost him for nothing.
3) You should just say Grant for that matter (but again, is only a discussion if two years ago you thought Grant>Conley...did you?). Wood? 0% chance. It's not "probably out of reach". There was no chance of him coming to Utah. Zero, nada. Not even worth talking about it.

I guess hindsight is a blessing when playing GM
1)Conley was horrendous for the majority of last season and did not live up to his contract or the assets we gave up to sign him. That was the fact. So everything i said last year about him was justified. This year he's been playing better so I haven't said a bad thing about him since, and sincerely hope he continues his good performance as a Jazz fan.

But yeah, Conley shot a hair above 40% for the entirety of 2019/2020 regular season, struggled defensively at times, caught in bad conditioning and went out for a handful of games while the jazz going on a winning streak in his absence, and I as well as many other jazz fans here dared to question him and his performance during that time. What a crime. What a disgrace. Everyone should be ashamed of themselves.

So what are you going to do about it?

2) Again, Denver went for Grant and got a trip to the WCF because of it. If that's considered "nothing" to you then just brace yourself when this Jazz season ends.

3) Again. We signed Bojan to 4 year 73mil. And how much did Christian Wood sign for the Rockets? 3yr 41mil. And that's not counting the full MLE spent on Favors.

Do you really understand what I mean when i said signing Wood or grant instead of Bojan+Favs?

But sure. Zero chance that Christian Wood choose more money/winning/bigger role over less money/losing/bigger role. Zero.
 
Last edited:
How do you know we would work out a contract extension? Let's ask Denver.

Why was the FO interested in players like Mirotic or Portis? Because they had expressed their interest in the Jazz (openly and probably behind closed doors). GMs do have more information than you or me. They get to players, through agents, current players, coaches, friends, etc. They would have some kind of idea if Grant would see Utah as a long-term fit before pulling the trigger. Even then, there is always assimetry of information...

Yay! a trip to the WCF. Those are nice. Then Grant left.
Now you are just acting like typical brainless FO homer.

There shouldn't be any FO firing in professional sports because you know, every GM in the league ALWAYS knows exactly what they are doing with all the access to players, agents, coaches, friends. etc.

I'm sure New York Knicks, Detroit Pistons and Cleveland Cavs GMs, who absolutely STOLE three second round picks from us in a series of moves a few months back, would totally agree. Sixers, Clippers and T'Wolves GMs just wish they knew it sooner, so they can all get together and chant,

"Long live Dennis Lindsey!"
 
Last edited:
What about bogie or favors and draft capital to the cavs for nance and jarret Allen?


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
Here’s how I put it in another thread:


Alright, so if we’re the team with the best record in the league more than halfway through the season, but we’re not confident we’re a legit contender, then the question is, what do we have to lose with sacrificing future assets? If you’re at the basket, would you rather ensure you make the shot, or save some energy so that maybe you hit a half-court shot later on? If we’re this close, to hell with the future and go ahead and mortgage it.

It would be dependent on when the Memphis pick conveys, and these would have to be pushed out much farther into the future, but trade Favors and two first rounders for Larry Nance, Jr. Could include a Hughes or Udoka.

We may have to offload Favors in the future anyway by coupling assets. This just allows us to preemptively make that move now as part of parlaying it into a win-now move.

Do it. 4th year in a row is a charm with Cleveland.
 
1)Conley was horrendous for the majority of last season and did not live up to his contract or the assets we gave up to sign him. That was the fact. So everything i said last year about him was justified. This year he's been playing better so I haven't said a bad thing about him since, and sincerely hope he continues his good performance as a Jazz fan.

But yeah, Conley shot a hair above 40% for the entirety of 2019/2020 regular season, struggled defensively at times, caught in bad conditioning and went out for a handful of games while the jazz going on a winning streak in his absence, and I as well as many other jazz fans here dared to question him and his performance during that time. What a crime. So what are you going to do about it?

2) Again, Denver went for Grant and got a trip to the WCF because of it. If that's considered "nothing" to you then just brace yourself when this Jazz season ends.

3) Again. We signed Bojan to 4 year 73mil. And how much did Christian Wood sign for the Rockets? 3yr 41mil. And that's not counting the full MLE spent on Favors.

Do you really understand what I mean when i said signing Wood or grant instead of Bojan+Favs right?

But sure. Zero chance that Christian Wood choose more money/winning/bigger role over less money/losing/bigger role. Zero.
1) You just didn't question his perfomance, you stated arrogantly that he was a washed midget, several times. And that as a player, he gave you nothing. Remember? "no rebounds, passing, defense, scoring, shooting, dribbling,". There is a big difference between criticizing a player's perfomance and claiming he is basically a corpse. Your assesments were imbalanced and not rational, even when he played well. You even went as far as questioning his perfomance in previous years. So yeah, it was just not about last year, but you made arrogant (and stupid claims) about his career, as well as his ability to be a good player in the future. And you made hundreds of posts about it, ad nauseam.
2) Yeah, it's nothing. 1st round exit or WCF...you know what matters? The Championship.
3) Do you understand we had zero chance of signing Wood? Running a team is like a domino. You can't go back in time. You have to assess every move in the context in which it happened. So I'll explain it again. Read carefully:
- 2.5 years ago we decided we needed a major shakeup. Our major weakness was playmaking/shooting to beat a switching defense. Not defense or lenght like now. Therefore, we had our eyes on Conley. At that point, Grant is out of the question for a trade with OKC. We had our trade assests commited to a better player who fits a need.
- We pull the trade and have limited cap space in the summer. No assets. Again, we can't acquire Grant because we traded for Conley. You go for the best option with your cap space: Bogie. It's a win now move, expecting him to play well for at least 3 years. It's a reasonable expectation and he has the best season of his career. He injures his wrist though, which in part explains his inconsistent play this season.
- With Bogie signed the season before, there is no cap space or minutes for a young/upcoming forward in our team. Not only that, Wood is not a forward. He is a C! If you have watched our system, we play one big man at a time, sorrounded with forwards or wings who can make plays off the dribble. With Rudy and Quin system in place, how do you see Wood playing 35mpg? And most importantly, we didn't have the money. And finally, why would Wood choose Utah?.

You are basing your whole argument using hindsight and hypotethical situations. You should be assessing each move in context.

And at the end of the day, even with all the weaknesses, we have the best team in more than 20 years. But yeah, "DL did not call Woods in free agency" Duh.
 
Last edited:
Now you are just acting like typical brainless FO homer.

There shouldn't be any FO firing in professional sports because you know, every GM in the league ALWAYS knows exactly what they are doing with all the access to players, agents, coaches, friends. etc.

I'm sure New York Knicks, Detroit Pistons and Cleveland Cavs GMs, who absolutely STOLE three second round picks from us in a series of moves a few months back, would totally agree. Sixers, Clippers and T'Wolves GMs just wish they knew it sooner, so they can all get together and chant,

"Long live Dennis Lindsey!"
I mean, you are not the sharpest guy on JFC or the most respected. Ask around.

Can GMs make mistakes? Sure. Our FO did. They mismanaged assets in the offseason (like using a 2nd dumping Tucker, picking up Bradley's option and then using 2nds to dump it, probably drafting Dok when Favors was coming back- tbd-, etc). But overall, we have a competent FO that has put together a pretty good team.

But you are changing the subject. You keep talking about Grant or Wood like they were gettable and the FO were just taking a nap. You never put things into context or think from another person's point of view. You believe you are the smartest guy in the room by criticizing all the time, but it really gets tiring
 
Last edited:
1) You just didn't question his perfomance, you stated arrogantly that he was washed midget, several times. And that as a player, he gave you nothing. Remember? "no rebounds, passing, defense, scoring, shooting, dribbling,". There is a big difference between criticizing a player's perfomance and claiming he is basically a corpse. Your assesments were imbalance and not rational, even when he played well. You even went as far as questioning his perfomance in previous years. So yeah, it was just not about last year, but you made arrogant (and stupid claims) about his career, as well as his ability to be a good player in the future. And you made hundreds of posts about it, ad nauseam.
2) Yeah, it's nothing. 1st round exit or WCF...you know what matters? The Championship.
3) Do you understand we had zero chance of signing Wood? Running a team is like a domino. You can't go back in time. You have to assess every move in the context in which it happened. So I'll explain it again. Read carefully:
- 2.5 years ago we decided we needed a major shakeup. Our major weakness was playmaking/shooting to beat a switching defense. Not defense or lenght like now. Therefore, we had our eyes on Conley. At that point, Grant is out of the question for a trade with OKC. We had our trade assests commited to a better player who fits a need.
- We pull the trade and have limited cap space in the summer. No assets. Again, we can't acquire Grant because we traded for Conley. You go for the best option with your cap space: Bogie. It's a win now move, expecting him to play well for at least 3 years. It's a reasonable expectation and he has the best season of his career. He injures his wrist though, which in part explains his inconsistent play this season.
- With Bogie signed the season before, there is no cap space or minutes for a young/upcoming forward in our team. Not only that, Wood is not a forward. He is a C! If you have watched our system, we play one big man at a time, sorrounded with forwards or wings who can make plays off the dribble. With Rudy and Quin system in place, how do you see Wood playing 35mpg? And most importantly, we didn't have the money. And finally, why would Wood choose Utah?.

You are basing your whole argument using hindsight and hypotethical situations. You should be assessing each move in context.

And at the end of the day, even with all the weaknesses, we have the best team in more than 20 years. But yeah, "DL did not call Woods in free agency" Duh.
1) wow, "washed", "midget", "a player that give you nothing" are now officially the worst possible thing a fan can say to a player. surrrrrrrrrrrrre. worst crime ever. report me to admin. the online police. dial 911. get me locked up. do something please. I'll spend the rest of my life paying for the deadly sins which i committed.

2) it's championship or nothing? wow. what a miracle that you are still a jazz fan after so many years of "nothingness".

3) your narrative may work if DL is actually a reliable trade negotiator. but so far we have collected enough sample size of cringy trades that point to the opposite.

Just check out how much Suns gave up for Chris Paul, who is a far superior player and produced for the Suns right away. Any competent GM would have been able to save that additional 1st round pick for the Jazz and then guess what? we now have the asset to compete with Denver for Grant's service.

I was never high on Bogey or his contract and firmly believe that DL again overpaid him. Had him worked out a year-by-year decrease deal as opposed to increase, the Jazz would have been in a much better position

And like i said, Bogey signing wouldn't have been necessary if we acquired Grant from OKC. With Bogey's money off the book cuz it never happened, we will have room to extend Grant in offseason.

And if we lose Grant, guess what? we can throw that money at Wood instead and he will be our starting 4 and backup 5(thank you Favors), and that is 35min for you. 2 in 1. Now we will have that MLE saved to get other assets as well. You thought i was joking when I said having grant or Wood is better than having both Bogey and Favors?

And hindsight/hypothetical situations. Again, you are building the narratives(making the excuse) for losers and incompetency. Billy King and Ted Stepien will be so proud.

How much of hindsight would it require for DL to see that he didn't need to give up second rounders to offload Tucker or Bradley? How much of a hindsight would it require for DL to see that he could have swapped our 23rd pick for 25th and 33rd as opposed to the Knicks offer of 27th and 38th?

I thought DL had access to T'wolves, Clippers and Sixers GMs' phone number? But he didn't bother to call those folks. Duh.
 
Last edited:
I mean, you are not the sharpest guy on JFC or the most respected. Ask around.

Can GMs make mistakes? Sure. Our FO did. They mismanaged assets in the offseason (like using a 2nd dumping Tucker, picking up Bradley's option and then using 2nds to dump it, probably drafting Dok when Favors was coming back- tbd-, etc). But overall, we have a competent FO that has put together a pretty good team.

But you are changing the subject. You keep talking about Grant or Wood like they were gettable and the FO were just taking a nap. You never put things into context or think from another person's point of view. You believe you are the smartest guy in the room by criticizing all the time, but it really gets tiring
so let me put things into context for you,

DL overpaid to get Favors and Bogey followed by a series of unnecessary and cringy moves that resulted in us now having zero trade assets to acquire what's missing and will head to a future of "nothingness".
 
I think outside of our three all stars anyone should be on the table to trade if Lindsay truly believes it can make us better. He’s a smart GM. No one has a crystal ball but he has good instincts. We just need a bit more size and toughness. It would be nice to have someone who can get onto the paint or really run the floor. But I don’t see how we pull a trade like this..
 
Wood could have easily played PF next to Gobert and backed him up at center too, would be a tremendous upgrade over both bogey and favors. We'd be on another level with Wood here. Same with Grant.
 
1) wow, "washed", "midget", "a player that give you nothing" are now officially the worst possible thing a fan can say to a player. surrrrrrrrrrrrre. worst crime ever. report me to admin. the online police. dial 911. get me locked up. do something please. I'll spend the rest of my life paying for the deadly sins which i committed.

2) it's championship or nothing? wow. what a miracle that you are still a jazz fan after so many years of "nothingness".

3) your narrative may work if DL is actually a reliable trade negotiator. but so far we have collected enough sample size of cringy trades that point to the opposite.

Just check out how much Suns gave up for Chris Paul, who is a far superior player and produced for the Suns right away. Any competent GM would have been able to save that additional 1st round pick for the Jazz and then guess what? we now have the asset to compete with Denver for Grant's service.

I was never high on Bogey or his contract and firmly believe that DL again overpaid him. Had him worked out a year-by-year decrease deal as opposed to increase, the Jazz would have been in a much better position

And like i said, Bogey signing wouldn't have been necessary if we acquired Grant from OKC. With Bogey's money off the book cuz it never happened, we will have room to extend Grant in offseason.

And if we lose Grant, guess what? we can throw that money at Wood instead and he will be our starting 4 and backup 5(thank you Favors), and that is 35min for you. 2 in 1. Now we will have that MLE saved to get other assets as well. You thought i was joking when I said having grant or Wood is better than having both Bogey and Favors?

And hindsight/hypothetical situations. Again, you are building the narratives(making the excuse) for losers and incompetency. Billy King and Ted Stepien will be so proud.

How much of hindsight would it require for DL to see that he didn't need to give up second rounders to offload Tucker or Bradley? How much of a hindsight would it require for DL to see that he could have swapped our 23rd pick for 25th and 33rd as opposed to the Knicks offer of 27th and 38th?

I thought DL had access to T'wolves, Clippers and Sixers GMs' phone number? But he didn't bother to call those folks. Duh.
1) Worst thing? Not really. But saying it 100s of times, to the point of stupidity, yeah. And it says more about your ability to assess players than anything else. Locked up? That would be nice. But only if you don't have access to JFC
2) Yup. I root for this team, year after year, with the ultimate hope of getting a chip. 1st round exit? WCF? At the end of the day, every fan wants a championship
3) Your logic is always one-sided. Sure, you offer one 1st rounder for Conley and guess what, that trade doesn't happen. We all know Memphis was playing hard ball. We overpaid for him? Maybe (although not if he help us win a chip). But once we used the assets in June for Conley, Grant became off limits. Oh and Woods, yeah, your Center was not coming to Utah with Rudy Gobert on the team (and not for they money we had). So forget that stupid narrative.

DL/Zanick look like they got played by the Knicks. But it's also the TWolves fault who paid more than needed had they contacted the Jazz. But let's examine this in context. The year before the 2nds' price skyrocketed during the draft. We acted before anyone else to get a high second rounder and traded down. It's reasonable to expect that at the time, the Kicks was the best offer available (at leas that they knew). The Twolves entered the picture on draft day, when they saw a player they liked slipping. At that point, the Jazz had traded down already and the Knicks capitalized on the Wolve's need. You take a calculated risk based on a lot of moving factors. The problem with you is that you just look at the outcome to judge the process, your analysis never goes past what is obvious...but you act like it does, which is lame.

Relationships matter in the NBA. That's why you might be able to get intel through agents, players or guys like Woj. But not all GMs talk to each other. There is assimetry of information, leading to a non-efficient equilibrium. GMs try to gather as much intel as they can, but as I said, it's not possible to have information about all scenarios.
 
Last edited:
Wood could have easily played PF next to Gobert and backed him up at center too, would be a tremendous upgrade over both bogey and favors. We'd be on another level with Wood here. Same with Grant.
Skillwise, I think Grant is a better fit. He can make plays off the dribble and defend multiple positions. Not sold on Wood's fit next to Gobert. As a C better than Favors? oh yeah. But none were realistically available to the Jazz when we choose Bogey or Faves.

I'm wondering what's Grant price now? It's probably prohibitive. He'll likely get traded next year...that team is a mess
 
1) Worst thing? Not really. But saying it 100s of times, to the point of stupidity, yeah. Locked up? That would be nice. But only if you don't have access to JFC
2) Yup. I root for this team, year after year, with the ultimate hope of getting a chip. 1st round exit? WCF? At the end of the day, every fan wants a championship
3) Your logic is always one-sided. Sure, you offer one 1st rounder for Conley and guess what, that trade doesn't happen. We all know Memphis was playing hard ball. We overpaid for him? Maybe (although not if he help us win a chip). But once we used the assets in June for Conley, Grant became off limits. Oh and Woods, yeah, your Center was not coming to Utah with Rudy Gobert on the team (and not for they money we had). So forget that stupid narrative.

DL/Zanick look like they got played by the Knicks. But it's also the TWolves fault who paid more than needed had they contacted the Jazz. But let's examine this in context. The year before the 2nds' price skyrocketed during the draft. We acted before anyone else to get a high second rounder and traded down. It's reasonable to expect that at the time, the Kicks was the best offer available (at leas that they knew). The Twolves entered the picture on draft day, when they saw a player they liked slipping. At that point, the Jazz had traded down already and the Knicks capitalized on the Wolve's need. You take a calculated risk based on a lot of moving factors. The problem with you is that you just look at the outcome to judge the process, your analysis never goes past what is obvious...but you act like it does, which is lame.

Relationships matter in the NBA. That's why you might be able to get intel through agents, players or guys like Woj. But not all GMs talk to each other. There is assimetry of information, leading to a non-efficient equilibrium. GMs try to gather as much intel as they can, but as I said, it's not possible to have information about all scenarios.
1) I thought you were trying to teach posters here to "put things into context"?

Was i saying it 100s of times, or was Conley sucking 100s of times last season that frustrated the jazz fans who sent out mad posts or tweets during games? You talking like I'm just on a mission of bashing Conley, doing nothing but send out 10 posts a day dedicated to hating Conley.

But if you just open up a game thread, any of the thread, you will see jazz fans posting things like "DM sucks", "get Bogey the **** out of the game", or "Favors is done" multiple times, and many of them come from the same posters. So are they also on the point of "stupidity" that you are referring to?

How about playing better? I mean what has Bogey, Favors, (or even Clarkson) done in recent games that deserve anything but criticism and bashing from the fans? Their poor performance are now a problem to this Jazz team and have been a problem ever since this recent Jazz struggle begin. So why not post about it?

I was one of the first "niang haters" here at JFC and i absolutely hated his play. Sending out quite a few "hating" posts during games "to the point of stupidity" when he played poorly in his limited minutes. But since he picked up his D and playmaking, I've said nothing but praises in my recent posts and even called for his extension.

Same for Conley. When was the last time you saw me bashing Conley since his 2-13 performance in G7 against the Nuggets?

If a player starts playing better, hate will stop, and replaced with love and encouragement.

That IS how fandom works, my friend. If you don't like it, just put me on ignore, or anyone else that matters. Stop checking on JFC cuz it might give you PTSD.

2) Fans want a championship. Yes. And getting Grant or Wood while keeping most of your trade assets going forward CLEARLY gives us a better chance at achieving it than locking ourselves with three more years of Bogey and Favors.

Nuggets fell short of winning the chip. yes. But at least they came close. They had their own set of problems which the Jazz don't have and I've already explained the reason that Grant would be more inclined to resign with the Jazz had we acquired him from OKC. We can afford to offer Grant a bigger role on offense from day one which he wouldn't ever get in Denver with MPJ and Will Barton on their roster. The numbers he's been putting up for Pistons, imagine he doing it for us while playing some respectable D. Who needs Bogey?

Same for Wood. you are underestimating how much of a gap we have on offense during summer 2019. We were letting Jae Crowder chucking up over 10 shots a game. Wood and Grant will easily find themselves plenty of opportunities here.

3) GMs jobs are judged upon the outcomes, not the process. my friend.

Who the **** care about the thinking process behind Ted Stepien or Billy King when he gave Boston 4 unprotected first round picks for washed Pierce and Garnett? They ****ed up and will always be remembered for their failure and stupidity.

If DL only screwed up once, yes. Maybe it's not his fault. But like i said, what we have here is a history of cringe moves made by this FO that involve multiple teams.

You are saying T'wolves overpaid Knicks rather than us getting played and exploited. sure.

What about Sixers giving the Pistons a draft pick to get Bradley, right after DL sending a pick the other way just to get rid of him?

What about DL giving Cavs a pick just so they can help waive Tucker, when teams like Clippers were clearly interested in him and signed him to a deal immediately after he got cut?

You said it yourself. It's championship or nothing. Of course GMs won't have access to information about all scenarios. That's why there's only one champion every year. Jerry West had his hindsight on Kobe and Lakers won't the three peat. Simple as that.

Teams won't give you an excuse because you don't have the information or "hindsight" when they knock you out of the playoffs. Do better.
 
Wood could have easily played PF next to Gobert and backed him up at center too, would be a tremendous upgrade over both bogey and favors. We'd be on another level with Wood here. Same with Grant.
I tried so hard to get us wood.
 
Top