Favs Deal Must Be Moved

[Handlogten's Heros]

I hate told-you-so's, generally, but...

A handful of years ago, I was basically run off the board (by Fish and a few other dullards) for suggesting that the jury was still out on DL. At the time, I pointed out that DL had inherited a playoff team with 2 near-all stars (Millsap proved to be an all-star upon leaving) and four young lottery picks, but had yet to build a team any better than the one he inherited (or the ones KOC had built in the initial post-S2M era).

Well, there were 9 post-S2M KOC Jazz teams and now 9 post-KOC DL teams, and I think it's tough to make the case that DL has done better job in his 9 years than KOC did in his last 9, despite having a much more advantageous starting point:

Record
KOC: 390-332, .540 (44.3 wins over an 82-game season)
DL: 391-327, .545 (44.7 wins over an 82-game season)

Playoffs
KOC: 5 appearances, 4 series wins
DL: 5 appearances, 3 series wins

It's worth reiterating that the Jazz had a stockpile of young talent and a couple expiring near all-stars when DL came on, and the Jazz currently have very little in the way of assets and financial flexibility to improve the current team--although they do have two stars.

DL's not a terrible GM/Executive, mind you, just not a particularly creative or proactive one.

DL loves missionary every Wednesday and Saturday night.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I like that deal and if he had anything left in the tank when he came back I think it would be a net positive.

Yeah I've liked him... he's energetic and can shoot it a little. He's not great on the defensive side of the ball but the bench units aren't exactly awesome there.

The other thing that could happen is Udoka actually looks good and when Bryant is healthy he has a movable contract to get us something we need more.

 

[infection]

DL loves missionary every Wednesday and Saturday night.

I think you have this wrong. He doesn’t want anyone pushing him for any excess activity because it would interfere with his biweekly hand pad routine.

 

[infection]

Yeah I've liked him... he's energetic and can shoot it a little. He's not great on the defensive side of the ball but the bench units aren't exactly awesome there.

The other thing that could happen is Udoka actually looks good and when Bryant is healthy he has a movable contract to get us something we need more.

I thought Udoka had the right amount of athleticism to give us something of an unproven Udoh. Of course this would never happen as long as Favors is on the roster. I still don’t understand the Favors stuff… what we need is Rudy-lite if we’re running the same defensive plan, but because Favors has good hands we pretend he’s a better Rudy-lite than the real Rudy-lites because he can run the PNR with Ingles, or something.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I thought Udoka had the right amount of athleticism to give us something of an unproven Udoh. Of course this would never happen as long as Favors is on the roster. I still don’t understand the Favors stuff… what we need is Rudy-lite if we’re running the same defensive plan, but because Favors has good hands we pretend he’s a better Rudy-lite than the real Rudy-lites because he can run the PNR with Ingles, or something.

We need to see him out there so we can decide on his team options… having Bryant recovering would give us a window into what he can be and give us a safety net.

Wizards would need a stop gap option while he recovers. I’m guessing with Gafford playing well they may not want to pay Bryant (maybe he won’t get much).

once he’s healthy Bryant has more trade value than he does and someone may need him. If Udoka sucks we can go to Bryant and maybe he becomes a long term option to backup Rudy and give us some slight spacing.

 

[LoPo]

If we are really looking to dump Favors' salary, the trades I'm looking at are:

Favors to NOLA for 2nd rounders. They have 4 of them this year, so it's worth it for them if they want his presence back.
It's not like it should disappoint Favors too much: https://hoopshype.com/rumor/derrick-favors-hopes-to-be-back-with-pelicans/

Favors to Boston for a couple of their young, unproven guys like Langford and NeSmith.
Everyone knows Boston needs help down low. This only frees up a couple million, but at least it's something.

Favors to SA for their 2021 2nd rounder and a future 2nd rounder.
He's a good vet and Pop would probably appreciate him. They have loads of cap space.

Favors to Charlotte for 2nd round picks
They want reinforcements in the post.

Favors to New York for Knox
With Thibs in charge, they want guys who are ready to play now. Thibs seems to have given up on Knox. We could try to rebuild him, but if it doesn't work, it still saves us $4 million this year and Knox expires after the year.

 

[KqWIN]

I'm with you... on all of this. I think they would do a full front office pivot if it wasn't such a critical time in the franchise. I will say that the report that DL basically said "eff you guys I'm taking Udoka" may have been how things went. I imagine some assistant front office person injecting themselves in the Favs and JC negotiations and saying "hey we need to shave a couple million off these deals to avoid the tax" and being completely ignored... then DL thinking we will figure that out later. Even if they had flipped the Udoka pick for a second... and then taken Udoka in the 30s... because he would have been there... it may have given them the necessary wiggle room.

I agree the draft is the tell... I think I said as much somewhere. If we move back even if its just for seconds it will shave some dollars off... sucks to make decisions based on a rookie making 900k vs. 2M but that's kinda where we are.

The incoming FO overhaul makes a lot of sense when you consider how badly they botched the numbers. There were so many ways to shave off enough money to dodge the tax, but they ended up wasting picks to not even duck it. I remember doing all the mental match about weird ways they could duck it. I even justified the Doke pick assuming that he took 80% of the rookie scale to make it work. Nope, they just ****ed up badly. They couldn't get JC or Favs to shave off a million or two to save tens of millions later down the line. NBA owners should put faith in their FO to handle these things correctly, but the Jazz FO just failed horribly.

It seems like Quin is seeing a rise of power and honestly that makes me uncomfortable. I don't think he's earned that. Honestly, it kinda feels like the Philly situation with Brett Brown. He's receiving a lot of power but if he doesn't get the job done the new FO will replace him quickly.

 

[Miggs]

PJ Washington infuriates Charlotte fans. I’d be down for Rozier and Bridges and their 2021 1st and a swap in 2023.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If we are really looking to dump Favors' salary, the trades I'm looking at are:

Favors to NOLA for 2nd rounders. They have 4 of them this year, so it's worth it for them if they want his presence back.
It's not like it should disappoint Favors too much: https://hoopshype.com/rumor/derrick-favors-hopes-to-be-back-with-pelicans/

Favors to Boston for a couple of their young, unproven guys like Langford and NeSmith.
Everyone knows Boston needs help down low. This only frees up a couple million, but at least it's something.

Favors to SA for their 2021 2nd rounder and a future 2nd rounder.
He's a good vet and Pop would probably appreciate him. They have loads of cap space.

Favors to Charlotte for 2nd round picks
They want reinforcements in the post.

Favors to New York for Knox
With Thibs in charge, they want guys who are ready to play now. Thibs seems to have given up on Knox. We could try to rebuild him, but if it doesn't work, it still saves us $4 million this year and Knox expires after the year.

I don't think we get value back for Favs.. I think we'd be the ones giving picks in most of these deals. The NY one not so much... I think we could flip Knox to OKC and take the full savings. Nesmith and Langford is like incredibly slanted.

 

[Jingled]

This is the problem with the team. We fell in love with personalities over winning a title.
and the top record in the west only may the homers more blind.

Reality sunk in when we embarrassed ourselves in the playoffs.

Some people still think Royce is the answer, or some really good player. It's mind blowing. He's OKAY but hes a weakness and
very overrated by some. Ingles too. These guys should be end of the rotation guys not key pieces.

I don't agree with this at all. Royce and Joe are both starter level players in this league. Both are great role players and complimentary pieces.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The incoming FO overhaul makes a lot of sense when you consider how badly they botched the numbers. There were so many ways to shave off enough money to dodge the tax, but they ended up wasting picks to not even duck it. I remember doing all the mental match about weird ways they could duck it. I even justified the Doke pick assuming that he took 80% of the rookie scale to make it work. Nope, they just ****ed up badly. They couldn't get JC or Favs to shave off a million or two to save tens of millions later down the line. NBA owners should put faith in their FO to handle these things correctly, but the Jazz FO just failed horribly.

It seems like Quin is seeing a rise of power and honestly that makes me uncomfortable. I don't think he's earned that. Honestly, it kinda feels like the Philly situation with Brett Brown. He's receiving a lot of power but if he doesn't get the job done the new FO will replace him quickly.

That's exactly the situation we were in.. it became a collaborative front office (Brand and Brown had the power). I have even heard the Scott O Niel (former philly CEO) may be coming to our organization... I'm not a fan at all. This is not a great route to take.

 

[KqWIN]

That's exactly the situation we were in.. it became a collaborative front office (Brand and Brown had the power). I have even heard the Scott O Niel (former philly CEO) may be coming to our organization... I'm not a fan at all. This is not a great route to take.

I think it would be good to get some fresh faces in the FO's. I don't anything about Scott O'Niel, but FO "talent" is very hard to evaluate. There are some exceptions where FO members are consistently good (or bad), but most track records are a mix of good and bad moves. Hell, look at DL. It's very easy to list out all of his failures, but he also built a title favorite almost entirely from the margins. Smart minds can make bad moves and bad ones can make good moves. It's the nature of the business.

I do love the idea of taking from MIA's FO though. They have been consistent in so many aspects. Finding undervalued talent, negotiating contracts, and attracting talent. They would never have botched their cap situation like the Jazz did. I much prefer that to Quin gaining power. I don't think the coach/GM combo as one person is a good idea and I suspect Quin is about to go down that Brett Brown path.