Lockout!!!

[margodydek]

You leave Lockheed-Martin, you can work for Northrup-Grumann, with vbery little difference. You leave Wellpoint, you can work for United Healthcare. There is no other organization similar to the NBA. Because they have an effective monopoly, they don't get to treat employees like other companies. In particular, if your employees find your working conditions unacceptable, your options are limited.

My understanding is that the NBA could avoid both a union and anti-trust legislation simpy by abandoning the salary cap, luxury tax, and similar provisions of the CBA, and every team was free to decide it's salary structure on its own, setting up genuine competition for players. The owners want limited competition for players, so the player have a say in that.

Well obviously they could avoid any litigation by blowing things up and going the MLB route. That's like saying the players could have avoided this whole lockout mess if they simply agreed to a hard cap, rollbacks and 47% of BRI.

And there are dozens of professional basketball leagues throughout the world that these players could have, and still can, play for.

 

[NCJazz]

I would be all for eliminating the CBA and having each team be free to decide thier own salary structure. We all know this would result in 5 to 8 teams in the league competing for the top spot while the other teams fight for scraps. I would be okay with this situation because atleast it gets rid of the illusion that all NBA teams are equal. And the millers can field a team of nice guys, who are scrappy players with interesting storylines, and still charge a bit for seasons tickets because the stars will come via the other teams. Jazz never win a championship, but they weren't going to anyway.

The problem I have is that the players won't stop there. They would claim collusion amongst the owners of the 20 or so teams that kept a budget and every free agency off-season would be a court battle. No thanks.

Basically NASCAR has a free for all system and there is really only about 5 major teams competing so blowing up the CBA entirely would probably leave less teams competing for the championship and clearly Utah would almost certainly not be able to compete.

 

[NotDeadYet]

You leave Lockheed-Martin, you can work for Northrup-Grumann, with vbery little difference. You leave Wellpoint, you can work for United Healthcare. There is no other organization similar to the NBA. Because they have an effective monopoly, they don't get to treat employees like other companies. In particular, if your employees find your working conditions unacceptable, your options are limited.
There are other basketball leagues, just not others that pay what the NBA pays. Nothing in Antitrust laws regarding a person's salary. Besides, I think Antitrust laws are based on "essential services" being provided. IMO, the NBA union or "association" is trying to gain leverage and settle before this ever goes to court. IMO, a waste of time...

 

[One Brow]

Well obviously they could avoid any litigation by blowing things up and going the MLB route. That's like saying the players could have avoided this whole lockout mess if they simply agreed to a hard cap, rollbacks and 47% of BRI.

The difference3 is that the latter requires player agreement, while the former does not. The owners want a CBA becasue they do not want a free market on player salaries.

And there are dozens of professional basketball leagues throughout the world that these players could have, and still can, play for.

None are competitors to the NBA. That's like saying you can gor from Lockheed-Martin to a German defense company.

 

[freakazoid]

I would be all for eliminating the CBA and having each team be free to decide thier own salary structure. We all know this would result in 5 to 8 teams in the league competing for the top spot while the other teams fight for scraps. I would be okay with this situation because atleast it gets rid of the illusion that all NBA teams are equal. And the millers can field a team of nice guys, who are scrappy players with interesting storylines, and still charge a bit for seasons tickets because the stars will come via the other teams. Jazz never win a championship, but they weren't going to anyway.

Yeah, right. I don't know a single Jazz fan who would want to watch a D-league Jazz team get creamed every night by an all-star team from LA, New York, or Chicago. Even the fans of those teams would get bored with that situation in a hurry. Teams like Utah would fizzle out, and it would probably cut the league in half. This is a terrible idea, and quite honestly, I don't believe you are a Jazz fan if you would be OK with that.

 

[jacktheripper]

Is there a more clear-cut pile of **** (in a garbage can, pulsating with maggots) in this saga than Billy Hunter?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216560/Hunters_Chosen_Plan_Keeps_Him_Relevant_Preserves_His_$25M_Salary

 

[margodydek]

The difference3 is that the latter requires player agreement, while the former does not. The owners want a CBA becasue they do not want a free market on player salaries.



None are competitors to the NBA. That's like saying you can gor from Lockheed-Martin to a German defense company.

Just because I'm employed at Lockheed-Martin doesn't mean that I'm entitled to the my current salary and benefits for my entire career. It's Lockheed-Martin's perogative to employ me and unless they are asking me to do anything illegal or immoral, if I want to stay there, I'll abide by their rules. If I disagree with what they're asking me to do, then I have the option of seeking employment elsewhere at the expense of losing whatever salary/benefits that I had at Lockheed-Martin.

 

[One Brow]

There are other basketball leagues, just not others that pay what the NBA pays.

The NBA is 30 different corporations working together to set salary stuctures, only one of which pays player salary directly (the Hornets). Why should these 30 companies be allowed to get together and dictate market salary? It would be against the law, and anti-competitive, if the top 30 banks in the US got together to set wages for tellers and loan officers, yet 30 baskeball coporations get a free pass there.

Nothing in Antitrust laws regarding a person's salary.

There is plenty on different companies acting in a concerted, cooperative fashion to limit salaries.

I'm as anxious for basketbal as anyone, but I'm not going to kid myself into believing that the players should be treated as if they are employees dealing with a free market, when the owners actually want nothing to do with a free market. The onwers want to act in trust, so they need to deal with the players as a union.

 

[One Brow]

Just because I'm employed at Lockheed-Martin doesn't mean that I'm entitled to the my current salary and benefits for my entire career.

No NBA player gets that.

It's Lockheed-Martin's perogative to employ me and unless they are asking me to do anything illegal or immoral, if I want to stay there, I'll abide by their rules. If I disagree with what they're asking me to do, then I have the option of seeking employment elsewhere at the expense of losing whatever salary/benefits that I had at Lockheed-Martin.

Since all the NBA teams are working together, the equivalent here would be you choosing to work at Lockheed-Martin, or taking your services to the fast-food industry (that the usual alternative suggested for the players, it seems), because every other complany operates in the same way Lockheed-Martin does, at the same salary structure, and they all know about your putative refusal.

 

[margodydek]

No NBA player gets that.



Since all the NBA teams are working together, the equivalent here would be you choosing to work at Lockheed-Martin, or taking your services to the fast-food industry (that the usual alternative suggested for the players, it seems), because every other complany operates in the same way Lockheed-Martin does, at the same salary structure, and they all know about your putative refusal.

So DWill's flipping burgers in Turkey?

 

[mellow]

Yeah, right. I don't know a single Jazz fan who would want to watch a D-league Jazz team get creamed every night by an all-star team from LA, New York, or Chicago. Even the fans of those teams would get bored with that situation in a hurry. Teams like Utah would fizzle out, and it would probably cut the league in half. This is a terrible idea, and quite honestly, I don't believe you are a Jazz fan if you would be OK with that.

Jazz fan for 25 years, I got on board when it was the underdog Jazz versus the might Lakers.

I never said D-league team, but the Jazz would have to field a team of second choices, cast offs and left overs, but isn't that what they are doing now? (see Rodger Bell, A. Jefferson, and D. Harris.) The Jazz were going to get creamed by the all-star teams of Chicago, LA, New York and Miami this year anyway. I'm just saying without the CBA the illusion of fairness is eliminated and realistic expectations could be sink in.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Listening to the radio yesterday they definitely believe it is a few NBA elite players and agents running the show and keeping everybody in the dark as much as they can.
In the beginning of this thread or maybe an older thread I know I mentioned I was worried and wish there was a way to do away with the agents influence but I had no idea it would or could be as bad as it's being speculated of being right now.
I'm not against the players per say some of them maybe but not as a whole. The interviews, charity games and tweets we see from a lot of them seem like real people and wanting to play and would accept this deal. But I am against the players from the stand point of not allowing/wanting system changes and for not knowing the business better.

I understand that players have no interest in all the CBA paper work stuff, for example this week we're having health insurance meeting and believe me my eyes glaze over in seconds and I don't have a clue what most of it is or does. But the second something I'm interested in that might affect me comes up I'm all ears and paying attention and I make sure I have the websites and mobile apps so if something comes up that I should've known when I was in my boredom induced comma I can find out the answer.

Also again I'm not really saying the owners aren't at fault either, if they lived up (actually cared) to their PR talk they'd give more BRI and push harder on system issues.