Thoughts on Trading Bogdanvic
- Thread starter Qman
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jom2003
Well-Known Member
"sometimes" is very good choice of words here. we can use a guy who could play solid D "sometimes". Instead, we have guys like Bogey, JC and even Jingles who couldn't play D at anytime. so what happen when our best defender Rudy and Royce were having off nights defensively, who's gonna step up?
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Hopefully Mitchell, Forrest, and Butler.
You have to develop Forrest and Bulter over these 82 games. There’ll be some hiccups, though.... so dudes like jom will bitch and moan. Make sure to look out for him btw.
I don't know where you've been, but we've talked about different targets several times. Hart, Anderson, Covington many times in this thread. In the summer we also talked about Smart, Young, Nance ect. I've also said ad nauseum that finding a trade partner is difficult, but the general idea of trading a scorer (Bogey/Clarkson) for a defender like those listed makes all the sense in the world to me.
Who wouldn’t trade Bogey for Grant? Who would trade Grant for Bogey?
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Hart doesn’t really fit the need. We can’t trade a wing for another guard.
Anderson is overrated as ****. I guarantee the dudes who are pimping him have very little experience actually watching him play, and are dazzled by some of the rises in his stats last year. I wouldn’t trade Bogie for him. And the idea that he’s a stopper is lol.
RoCo is probably declining beyond the level of interest. I’ve suggested him as a target long before you came aboard, but the idea might’ve passed it’s expiration date.
The other names you mentioned probably would’ve happened already if they were going to happen... but why don’t you put the nuts and bolts together and show us what a trade would look like at this point?
I know the hypothetical trade makes sense to you. You say it often. But it’s a deductive sort of logic you’re using.... Put it into some kind of real world scenario, or maybe put it in your signature.... cuz it’s pretty tiring to see you repeat this deduction for months on end.
We'll still be a taxpaying team so we won't have the full MLE, but his value is something to watch for sure. The Grizzlies have a ton of good wings and he's falling out of favor behind Melton and Bane. Brooks isn't back yet either. With a big financial commitment to JJJ and Zaire Williams waiting in the wings I don't think MEM will make a big offer to retain him.
I don't really understand the Hart argument. Are we defining a players fit by what we arbitrarily label as their position? What makes Hart a guard and Bogey/Clarkson a wing? Or do you have it the other way around? That label doesn't mean a thing, what matters is how they play. Hart is a big time grinder and competes on defense. He gets more rebounds than Clarkson/Bogey combined. He fits the need and trade concept fairly well as a valuable low usage player. His versatility and ability to fit into any of our lineups is a selling point to me.
Anderson has been a favorite of mine for years and yes, I have watched him play. Numerica seems to like him as well, maybe you should ask him if he's actually watched him play. You see, that argument doesn't really mean anything. I could just as easily say that anyone who thinks Anderson is overrated has little experience watching him play. It means nothing. You don't get make up reasons for another person to like/dislike a player, especially when they are not true and you have no clue if it's true. Anderson did have quite the offensive jump last season which is a reason why I really wanted him this summer, but throughout his entire career he's been a value low usage player and great defender.
Roco, I'm not too high on him myself, but he is the right idea as a player. I don't think he has been available or will be. HH mentioned a scenario where the Blazers trade CJ for Ben and that opens up a logical swap, and I could see that happening. I would do that trade if it was presented, but that's a real outlier scenario IMO.
The most realistic trade is for Hart. NOP is primed to make a terrible move and taking advantage of desperate, bad FO's is a huge market ineeficiency. I would move Bogey or Clarkson for Hart and he should come with extra sweetners. I don't think draft capital is a priority, but it's never a bad thing and you never know when we are going to overpay for another C. I think we could get Hart and at least one 1st. They have a whole mess of picks to make that trade work. Will it happen? Probably not, I don't think the FO is considering moving Bogey or Clarkson. I don't think the FO is looking to make any move, but that doesn't stop people from suggesting moves they think can help the team.
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NAOS
Well-Known Member
My statements about Anderson are full of meaning. That’s precisely why you were able to understand what I was saying and label it as an accusation. Now, am I able to back that accusation up with hard evidence? Obviously not. —But this is actually me giving you the benefit of the doubt. Because I wouldn’t think someone with your apparent basketball acumen would be pounding for Anderson for your stated reasons if you’d seen much of him. But apparently you have watched plenty. So I guess the argument shifts to the quality of your eyeballs...... but I’ll save my time since you’ll just say that it’s another argument without meaning.
As for Hart and the position question. I guess you’re going to have to ask Q. The jazz don’t have any established pattern of playing someone with Hart’s profile against the kind of wings we struggle with. And whenever Royce (defending, say, an SG) shifts Mitchell or Conley onto a larger wing, there have been problems. So, yeah.
Let’s play your “meaningless” thing just one more step further..... What kind of meaning is there in your sentence “NOP is primed to make a terrible move”? I’m assuming that since you said it, you should have some insider evidence that I don’t have. Would appreciate having my eyes opened.
I think anyone who think's Anderson is overrated has never watched him play. Now, am I able to back that accusation up with hard evidence? Obviously not. —But this is actually me giving you the benefit of the doubt. Because I wouldn’t think someone with your apparent basketball acumen would be pounding for Anderson for your stated reasons if you’d seen much of him. But apparently you have watched plenty. So I guess the argument shifts to the quality of your eyeballs...... but I’ll save my time since you’ll just say that it’s another argument without meaning.
The Jazz do have an establish pattern of playing someone with Hart's profile against wings we struggle with. He is very similar to Royce in terms of his physical profile. Give Hart the same opportunites and talent around him, I think Hart could prove to be a better version of Royce. Conley or Mitchell guarding a bigger wing can only be solved by them guarding the smaller guard themselves or not playing at all. The reason why Hart makes sense is because his value as a player doesn't come from what he does as a scorer or ball hander. If he was moved for Bogey/Clarkson, I think he can fill into any of our existing lineups.
HH and I have talked about NOP being a prime trade target many times, and there's reason for that. NOP are in a high pressure situation to win and their GM is on the hot seat. In Hart's case specifically, it had been reported that he wanted a fresh this summer and the interesting contract structure he eventually agreed to didn't inspire much confidence in a long term partnership. All the recent reports out of NOP have not been good between Zion, Ball wanting out, ownership weirdness....there's a lot of smoke there and it's been going on for awhile. When a franchise is on the ropes that's a great opportunity to take advantage.
LogGrad98
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Did you see the part where I said "if" and "might"?