Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
They care about what affects biological females (over 50% of the population).
Transgender and sports
- Thread starter Beer
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If they cared about biological females, they would be passing a completely different set of laws.
The one trans student who is playing female sports in Utah is not affecting me, a cishet female, in the least. Nor any of the females among my family and friends.
I'm angry that the state is planning a special session to approve $500,000 for the inevitable lawsuits that will happen. We could use that money in a way that impacts children is a positive way, like lessening child abuse. Instead, we are going to make those who profess to believe in Christ feel better as they do the exact opposite of what he would do.
Apparently that one trans athlete isn't ruining female high school sports in this state as none of us know who she is.
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Avery
Well-Known Member
Guess that’s why they are so passionate about women’s rights.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
I can appreciate your opinion on this issue just I'd appreciate an opinion that there shouldn't be a sentencing disparity between men and women who commit the same crime or a disparity in how men and women are treated in family court. Our government protects women and that includes protecting women from biological males who call themselves women. Our government will wear that '$500k to defend women' as a badge of honor, especially if they're young, cute and athletic. I don't make the rules and you can hate me for saying it but we all know this is how it works.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
You are delusional if you don't think women don't have more rights than you. If you got a girl pregnant and unilaterally decided to end the life of that fetus you'd be charged with fetal murder. If the girl decided unilaterally to kill your baby then it is considered "choice". I'm no men's right advocate and broadly support most of the disparities in the system. I'm fine with men getting longer sentences in criminal court for the same crime. Men do most of the crime and especially most of the violent crime. I think women should win custody of kids almost always. If women did lose the ability to choose to terminate a pregnancy then it would put them on the same footing as men. The debate in our society is not about if men and women should have the same rights, but how many more rights women should have than men.
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So here I meant “sex” not gender. There is a spectrum as far as gender goes. But things like sports are actually divided into sexes, and no matter how far you may be on the gender spectrum you still do not belong to the other sex.
Again, I should have used the word “sex” not gender here. Sports are broken into “sexes” not “genders” and you do not belong to the other sex no matter how far you may be on one end of the gender spectrum.
I’m not implying they are. The word “pretending” is directed at you.
I should have used the word “sex” several times instead of “gender” and that’s my bad.
There are some 5 or so ways of identifying physical sex, and they don't always align in an individual.
However, since you agree that your gender might not match your physical structure, I'll just note we play women's and men's sports (gender), and male and female sports (sex).
Except, that's not how we label them.
Then it's equally misapplied.
It does not improve your position.
I agree completely.
Cis women don't need the protection from trans women; it's the trans woman that get threatened and excluded.
As long as the fetus is in the woman, the right to an abortion is an extension of the right to self-defense.
Social equality would be a good start.
We've recently had to do some inclusion training stuff at work, a good hour or so was spent on the topic of trans, non binary ect. I think in that hour session I spent more time considering the topic than I had in the 39 years that preceded it. It makes me feel very out of touch.
People are people, I suppose we just like to make life harder for each other cause it's tradition.
People are people, I suppose we just like to make life harder for each other cause it's tradition.
LogGrad98
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We make life harder for each other because we instinctually fear what is different or disrupting. It is a survival thing at a basic level, imo. Anything viewed as disruptive to the status quo comes across as a threat. We have a innate drive to be part of a tribe, or a pack. It is in our instincts to group together to perpetuate the species and provide protection and sustenance and comfort. Anything that disrupts that is a threat. Since we are really long past the time when this little valley held our own little tribe, and your closest neighbor can have wildly differing opinions and lifestyle than your own, then social media provides the nucleus for new tribes to form, and that is what we see. United against the perceived threat. And the threats are exaggerated because that spurs the rest of the tribe to act out to eliminate the threat.
Why do people want so badly to get rid of masks, or why did they fight so hard against them in the first place? Because they are a physical representation of a clear and present danger and a destabilizing force in society. If we can get rid of them people can feel like we are returning to "normalcy". The threat is viewed as abated. It obviously isn't really, but it still is symbolic of that. It evokes a visceral reaction in people because it is the symbol of a true threat to an individual's way of life, their comfort and safety. People gussy up their arguments as "personal freedom" and such, and try to downplay the experts, because they do not want to admit what hits them in their gut: fear. Fight or flight, only there is nothing to fight against and no where to run.
I think anything people see as dramatically different from their "norm" evokes similar feelings and that is why we treat each other badly, we fear what we do not understand, and for some, or even many, that understanding will likely never develop. Different skin color, language, sexual orientation, whatever it might be, evokes that fear. Even simple belief, and so-called heritage, such as being born Tutsi or Hutu.
In the end we are basic animals in fancy clothes with fancier sticks for digging termites out of logs, and often we act like it. Safety for the pack is to eliminate the threat to the pack, whatever that is perceived to be.
It is tough, very tough, to be an evolved human and to act with thought instead of on instinct. We have become very very good at covering up our instinctual animal responses with faux-intellectual argument. But in the end, it is just fear driving it all. Even if that fear is completely irrational, the fact is that irrational fear might be the single largest force that has shaped human society over thousands of years, and continues to do so today. Advancement comes in spite of it and often in direct conflict with our irrational animal fear. But even that advancement is shaped and changed by it.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Respecting the existence of the transgender in a workplace or nearly everywhere else is different from the issue of transgender participation in women’s sports. If a biological male wants to wear a dress, that male is not depriving a women of a dress. Vietnamese children can always sew up some more dresses. If a biological male want to take a traditionally feminine name, that isn’t depriving anyone of use of that name. In sports, that is not the case.
Those advocating for biological men being able to take a spot in women’s sport always dance around the issue. It isn’t about denying anyone’s existence or humanity. That is all red herring talk. Have all the existence and humanity you want because there is an unlimited supply. This issue is about letting biological males take Title IX money that was designated specifically for female athletes. It is about biological males taking opportunity in championship events specifically intended for female athletes.
The sad part is watching the female athletes being forced to smile and cheer for the privilege of having money and opportunity taken from them out of fear of what people like One Brow will try to do to them if they don’t.
If a tall person wants to wear a shirt made for a short person, Vietnamese children can always can always sew up some more shirts. It a tall person want to take a nick-name associated with short people, that isn't depriving anyone of the use of that name. In sports, this is not the case. This supports the idea we should ban anyone over 6' tall from the NBA, because reasons.
Which no one advocates for, because after hormone therapy has begun, a trans woman is no longer a fully biological male.
The issues bigots dance around is that the money is for women's athletics as opposed to female athletics, and even then, Title IX does not say that.
Title Ix Of The Education Amendments Of 1972
The word "female" does not appear in this document, and "woman/women" only appears once, in the name of an organization. "Girl" appears 7 times, all in the section providing expemptions for various organizations.
"No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance".
As you so often point out, we are a republic, where laws matter, regardless of popular opinion. That's true even when you don't like the results of the law, right?
The NCAA has decided that their women's championship events are for women regardless of gender assigned at birth. Who are you to tell them what their organization is about?
You mean, I might criticize them on the internet? Oh, the horror!
However, I'm sure Mr. Swim Coach can describe in detail all of the money and opportunity that has historically been ward to the 16th place finisher in the NCAA Women's 500y freestyle event. What did the 16th place finisher get in 2021, or 2019? Please, detail that, Mr. Swim Coach.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Yes. Student athletes on scholarships like Sullivan, Weyant and Forde all have conduct unbecoming clauses tied to their positions on the team. The financial assistance runs around $70k for tuition, plus housing, plus books, plus food, and a living expenses stipend of around $5k. The total sum is not insignificant and I do believe you would lend your voice to the chorus condemning those athletes for conduct unbecoming for appearing in a photo separate from Lia Thomas.
You would do it even if your entire premise was false. As gandalfe pointed out, Sullivan even put her name on a statement beforehand in support of Lia Thomas.
Furthermore, reporters asked the three swimmers who said the photo was not any kind of protest but a quick pose of three friends who had known each other from the 2020 Tokyo Olympics swimming trials.
No, photo of NCAA women’s swimmers not a protest against transgender athlete
A photo of Lia Thomas and three of her competitors was taken out of context after Thomas, a transgender swimmer, won an NCAA national championship event.
www.abc10.com
None of that mattered to you. You labeled all three young swimmers bigots and said they reminded you of the racism white students screamed at black students in Little Rock in the 50’s.
How many times do you think those three swimmers heard similar slurs directed at them by people like you? I don’t think you would go so far as to physically hurt them but I do absolutely believe as evidenced by your actions that you would attempt to emotionally and financially harm them. I do think female athletes feel forced to smile and cheer for the privilege of having money and opportunity taken from them out of fear of what people like you will try to do to them if they don’t.
Quite honestly you’re being willfully dense here and I won’t go further. We know what things have been broken down by since humanity began playing sports. Being a more feminine man does not make you a woman. Being a masculine woman does not make you a man, and we both realize in sports that has generally always been the dividing line(sex). Semantics are simply that, semantics. Reality is what it is.
This thread has more pages and post than every thread about women's sports combined on this forum.
Yall really just hate trans people.
Yall really just hate trans people.
Well one of the reasons it is so long is because many of us are posting support for the transgender community. But yeah there hasn’t been any interest in women’s sports outside fear of transgender athletes in women’s sports.
I was responding "having money and opportunity taken from them", when in fact Sullivan, Weyant, and Forde all had the opportunity to compete, and lost. I suppose context does not matter as long as you twist it to your purposes.
Still, don't be hysterical. Wait for an athlete to actually be threatened with loss of scholarship funds before you start crying about it. I've seen plenty of articles by students who complained about Thomas, and you've linked to others signing documents that Thomas shouldn't compete. Total financial assistance lost: $0.
From what I have seen, the athletes posed for the official photos in the appropriate places on the stands, and then for additional photos. When you posted that photo previously, all I did was point out how it didn't imply what you thought it did. Again, don't get hysterical and make false accustions.
Check again. I did not call them bigots. Why do you lie about something so easily checked? Habit?Furthermore, reporters asked the three swimmers who said the photo was not any kind of protest but a quick pose of three friends who had known each other from the 2020 Tokyo Olympics swimming trials.
No, photo of NCAA women’s swimmers not a protest against transgender athlete
A photo of Lia Thomas and three of her competitors was taken out of context after Thomas, a transgender swimmer, won an NCAA national championship event.
None of that mattered to you. You labeled all three young swimmers bigots and said they reminded you of the racism white students screamed at black students in Little Rock in the 50’s.
Transgender and sports
Lia Thomas won the women's 500 with a time of 4:33.24. Matthew States won the men's 500 with a time of 4:06.61. In the most recent Utah High School championship, Tanner Nelson from Bingham won the boys 500 in 4:30.06. Lia Thomas is also well into the transition process. As a sophomore (3...
However, I did rely on your description, "The female swimmers don't want anything to do with Lia Thomas.", while you are now claiming the opposite. I should have known better than to rely upon anything you say. My error there.
If they were people like me, 0.
Name a single action I have taken that leads you to believe this. For that matter, same a single action I have taken that doesn't involve posting to JazzFanz.
We are deep into the area of character attack here. I don't care, because you lie so frequently/easily/obviously that your words are beneath contempt, but you should be more careful with other posters.
The freedom with which student athletes have protested says otherwise.