The Offseason Cha-cha-changes Thread

[KqWIN]

He guarded the second most fga on our team. So good on him for stepping up and taking on that challenge. I think he is a better on ball defender than off ball, so that was a good adjustment by Quin. He still isn't super effective. I'm not sure I would call him a liability, but you probably need much better perimeter defenders out of your other positions if you want to keep him next to Donovan. In my opinion, you probably can't play both him and Donovan together and have a good defensive team.

The reality is that to stop Luka, and any decent playoff offense, it needs to be a team effort. Bogey is OK on the ball and I applaud him for stepping up, but he is one of the worst off ball defenders in the league. He is always late to rotate, has no defensive range, doesn't create turnovers, falls asleep/ball watches, and also provides no rebounding at his position. It doesn't matter if you have Jrue Holiday as the point of attack defender....if you can't defend as a team the best offenses will destroy you. I'd agree that you probably can't have Don and Bogey on the same team and be a good defensive team. Both are iffy on the ball....Bogey is alright sometimes, Don depends on engagement....but they are both really damaging defenders off the ball.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't think there's been an attempt. I think the FO was content with what they had. Several players who would be great moves were moved over the past year, many of them for pennies, and the Jazz landed zero. It wasn't an issue of not having the assets or it "not working", it was overvaluing what they had and refusing to acknowledge the very real and obvious issues with this roster. I'd say they're completely crazy, but honestly that was a popular opinion around here. Whenever I brought up trading Clarkson, Bogey, our pick etc it was met with heavy resistance.

I think they attempted but maybe too late once some of the assets were burned up. I think DL had opportunities slip through his hands but you hit the nail on the head with they were married to what they had and overvalued it.

I think they tried to move Joe and it got squished. I think they would have gladly moved JC for wing help. I think Conley would have been moved in the right deal, but that may have been the piece they overvalued... his play really fell off a cliff.

The guy they need is so tough to find. They could improve by getting some wings that met some needs but definitely not all the needs outlined in the post I originally responded to.

Try is subjective... my kids will sometimes tell me they tried as hard as they could on their homework and I watched them give up after 5 minutes... so maybe they tried to get something for nothing.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I think they attempted but maybe too late once some of the assets were burned up. I think DL had opportunities slip through his hands but you hit the nail on the head with they were married to what they had and overvalued it.

I think they tried to move Joe and it got squished. I think they would have gladly moved JC for wing help. I think Conley would have been moved in the right deal, but that may have been the piece they overvalued... his play really fell off a cliff.

The guy they need is so tough to find. They could improve by getting some wings that met some needs but definitely not all the needs outlined in the post I originally responded to.

Try is subjective... my kids will sometimes tell me they tried as hard as they could on their homework and I watched them give up after 5 minutes... so maybe they tried to get something for nothing.

Where this idea that they were ever serious about finding these athletic 3 and D wings falls flat is the 2020 draft. Or the 2017 draft. Or probably the 2018 draft. Or even the 2021 draft.

These are very much the places to get the talent without paying a premium and they don’t even take a swing, opting to burn through backup centers and combo guards.

 

[KqWIN]

I think they attempted but maybe too late once some of the assets were burned up. I think DL had opportunities slip through his hands but you hit the nail on the head with they were married to what they had and overvalued it.

I think they tried to move Joe and it got squished. I think they would have gladly moved JC for wing help. I think Conley would have been moved in the right deal, but that may have been the piece they overvalued... his play really fell off a cliff.

The guy they need is so tough to find. They could improve by getting some wings that met some needs but definitely not all the needs outlined in the post I originally responded to.

Try is subjective... my kids will sometimes tell me they tried as hard as they could on their homework and I watched them give up after 5 minutes... so maybe they tried to get something for nothing.

A move definitely should have been made in the summer when more options were available. I think they believed in their own hype that Rudy Gay was going to be some kind of defensive savior. Maybe they legitimately thought that Don and Conley could defend when “health”. Either way, a massive oversight from the FO given how bad the defensive issues were.

It seemed too late at the deadline, but I keep going back to that LAC deal. There’s no doubt in my mind the Jazz could have beaten that offer. Powell and Covington are both ideal players to surround Mitchell+Gobert, and yet the FO totally boofed it.

Regardless of how much they “tried”, it was absolutely possible to get it done. They had the assets, they had the evidence that a move was needed….it’s just another big failure by the FO. To me this is much more unforgivable than other mistakes we like to focus on.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Where this idea that they were ever serious about finding these athletic 3 and D wings falls flat is the 2020 draft. Or the 2017 draft. Or probably the 2018 draft. Or even the 2021 draft.

These are very much the places to get the talent without paying a premium and they don’t even take a swing, opting to burn through backup centers and combo guards.

Yeah... I lost my **** a little when they didn't get Torrey Craig... they would argue in 2020 that Hughes was a 1st round prospect and they got him for free by moving back.... probably.

Maybe I just like to think they did try but that its a tall order. I would say post-DL they tried... at least a little. I just think it was such an obvious need but they didn't allocate as many resources.

Maybe I'm giving too much credit... IDK... like maybe we are that dumb.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

A move definitely should have been made in the summer when more options were available. I think they believed in their own hype that Rudy Gay was going to be some kind of defensive savior. Maybe they legitimately thought that Don and Conley could defend when “health”. Either way, a massive oversight from the FO given how bad the defensive issues were.

It seemed too late at the deadline, but I keep going back to that LAC deal. There’s no doubt in my mind the Jazz could have beaten that offer. Powell and Covington are both ideal players to surround Mitchell+Gobert, and yet the FO totally boofed it.

Regardless of how much they “tried”, it was absolutely possible to get it done. They had the assets, they had the evidence that a move was needed….it’s just another big failure by the FO. To me this is much more unforgivable than other mistakes we like to focus on.

I think the assets allocated to backup center was the most obvious failure and would consider it the most unforgiveable. Its just such an easy need to fill and if we threw those assets in a pile you could do really well on the wing market... either through trade or FA.

The Rudy Gay miss is tough. I supported it... obviously didn't know about the surgery but not sure it 100% changes my assessment. I was wrong... would have loved to see how it played out with him 100% to start the season... but he's old so injuries were always a risk. 1 less year on that contract (and damn near every contract we give out) and it makes the deal a lot less ******. Would love to know if we offered that to OP Jr. and Batum first.

Man every time I try to talk myself into us not being dumb I end up in the same place.... "we dumb".

 

[KqWIN]

I think the assets allocated to backup center was the most obvious failure and would consider it the most unforgiveable. Its just such an easy need to fill and if we threw those assets in a pile you could do really well on the wing market... either through trade or FA.

The Rudy Gay miss is tough. I supported it... obviously didn't know about the surgery but not sure it 100% changes my assessment. I was wrong... would have loved to see how it played out with him 100% to start the season... but he's old so injuries were always a risk. 1 less year on that contract (and damn near every contract we give out) and it makes the deal a lot less ******. Would love to know if we offered that to OP Jr. and Batum first.

Man every time I try to talk myself into us not being dumb I end up in the same place.... "we dumb".

I wasn’t super high on the Rudy Gay deal…but I will say I didn’t think it was a bad deal in vacuum. He just didn’t address our needs and I think the idea that he would give us a small 5 option to match up to teams like the Clippers was just so ridiculously stupid. I don’t know if that’s what they actually believed, but it was in every article. One of the more dumb narratives I have ever seen. If it was prime Rudy Gay, benching Gobert for him wouldn’t fix us. If it was prime Draymond Green instead of Gobert it wouldn’t fix our issues.

Chasing a backup C was obviously a major failure. I get the idea that you might want to draft BPA, but the Jazz just sank so many assets into that black hole.

For me, the draft wasn’t necessarily the place to fix our issues anyways (even though we should have drafted wings). It was such a big problem we need some for sure defenders. I felt like we needed to move Bogey/Clarkson/Ingles/Conley for a defensive player. Rudy Gay added extra safety to do so. Instead, the only one they tried to trade was Ingles and he was the closest thing we had to a two way player. Should have traded an offense only player for a defensive or more well rounded player.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I wasn’t super high on the Rudy Gay deal…but I will say I didn’t think it was a bad deal in vacuum. He just didn’t address our needs and I think the idea that he would give us a small 5 option to match up to teams like the Clippers was just so ridiculously stupid. I don’t know if that’s what they actually believed, but it was in every article. One of the more dumb narratives I have ever seen. If it was prime Rudy Gay, benching Gobert for him wouldn’t fix us. If it was prime Draymond Green instead of Gobert it wouldn’t fix our issues.

Chasing a backup C was obviously a major failure. I get the idea that you might want to draft BPA, but the Jazz just sank so many assets into that black hole.

For me, the draft wasn’t necessarily the place to fix our issues anyways (even though we should have drafted wings). It was such a big problem we need some for sure defenders. I felt like we needed to move Bogey/Clarkson/Ingles/Conley for a defensive player. Rudy Gay added extra safety to do so. Instead, the only one they tried to trade was Ingles and he was the closest thing we had to a two way player. Should have traded an offense only player for a defensive or more well rounded player.

Its not even that the guys you pick meet the current need... its that drafting centers unless they project to be able to shoot or be elite rim protectors is dumb... but also I like guys to have some reasonable opportunity to get on the floor... the hardest rookies to play are true centers if you already have 2 guys in front of them. A wing or guard might log 10 minutes for a 15 game sting during an injury and then can pump up their value in trades for more established guys that meet your needs. Its rough asset management.

Ingles was so damn important. I think he was worn out a bit or maybe pissed about the rumors, but he wasn't the guy to move if you had a choice... and JC could have definitely been moved then.

 

[Jingled]

Thise hurts. We gave up so damn much to get Mike and it just didn't work out.


View: https://twitter.com/HeadbandRoyce/status/1520145144745406464

 

[LoPo]

This is why building around Donovan is so hard. He has to be surrounded by great defenders who can also shoot and play make. Those guys are not easy to find or cheap.

With Donovan, we will play normal playoff style basketball. Let the best players win and not chance a system that can get exposed.

Rudy never dominates a playoff game. He's not going to win us a title. Why can't you guys see that?

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[LoPo]

Hassan was the one guy that consistently and vocally had Rudy's back all season. After the way this organization treated Rudy, I don't blame him for peacing out.

Lol. When did the organization not have Rudy's back this year?

You guys have a serious victim complex about your boy Rudy.

Some media member speculates on Don and it's somehow the word of God. Rudy does a bone head thing by airing his gripes about teammates in public, and he's some locker room saint and badass.

Rudy is soft as Charmin. The whole league knows and laughs at him. The only thing softer are the Rudy fanboys around here.

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[MTS]

Lol. When did the organization not have Rudy's back this year?

You guys have a serious victim complex about your boy Rudy.

Some media member speculates on Don and it's somehow the word of God. Rudy does a bone head thing by airing his gripes about teammates in public, and he's some locker room saint and badass.

Rudy is soft as Charmin. The whole league knows and laughs at him. The only thing softer are the Rudy fanboys around here.

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Lopo: "I never attack our players"