Roe v. Wade is going down

[Avery]

We should also criminalize the men that get the women pregnant if the pregnancy was a result of intercourse.

 

[JazzGal]

Has it occurred to the GOP that this is going to mess with their view of white nationalism? More black and brown babies forced to be born.

More people for them to discriminate against, I suppose.

 

[JazzGal]

I am grateful I am past childbearing years. I would hate to be in the position of what to do with a tubal pregnancy, infertility issues, contraceptives, etc. Not to mention all the women that will have to prove they had a miscarriage and hope that they aren't blamed for it.

But hey, it doesn't affect me, so I don't have to worry about it. Or so people tell me.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Has it occurred to the GOP that this is going to mess with their view of white nationalism? More black and brown babies forced to be born.

White nationalists do realize that and it is why they stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you.

Richard Spencer, the keynote speaker in Charlottesville and the central figure of the alt-right movement, finds abortion useful. He has explained that abortion will help to bring about his vision of an elite, white America: “The people who are having abortions are generally very often Black or Hispanic or from very poor circumstances.” The people whom Spencer wants to reproduce, he says, “are using abortion when you have a situation like Down Syndrome.” It is only “the unintelligent and blacks and Hispanics,” he claims, “who use abortion as birth control.”

Also secure in that knowledge is the pseudonymous alt-righter Aylmer Fisher, who writes in Spencer’s Radix Journal. “It is important we not fall prey to the pro-life temptation,” Fisher proclaims. Her reasoning is predictable: “The only ones who can’t [avoid an unwanted pregnancy] are the least intelligent and responsible members of society: women who are disproportionately Black, Hispanic, and poor.”

Institutionalized abortion in America, from its earliest days under eugenicist Margaret Sanger up until today, has been used to reduce the fertility rate of people with the immutable characteristics that seem to be the focus of your concern. Killing unwanted babies is an icky position but I will admit a perverse genius in branding it "pro-choice". It sounds way better than "pro-genocide" even if pro-genocide is closer to the truth of it.

 

[LogGrad98]

Has it occurred to the GOP that this is going to mess with their view of white nationalism? More black and brown babies forced to be born.

More people for them to discriminate against, I suppose.

They don't care about the unwashed masses, since due to redlining they don't live in the white neighborhoods anyway. They have a few token black families around, just enough for them to maintain the mantra of "hey I am not racist, I know a black guy....well I see a black guy now and then at the bank, and I make sure to protect my wallet when I do....but I say 'Hi', so that proves I'm not racist!"

 

[LogGrad98]

White nationalists do realize that and it is why they stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you.



Institutionalized abortion in America, from its earliest days under eugenicist Margaret Sanger up until today, has been used to reduce the fertility rate of people with the immutable characteristics that seem to be the focus of your concern. Killing unwanted babies is an icky position but I will admit a perverse genius in branding it "pro-choice". It sounds way better than "pro-genocide" even if pro-genocide is closer to the truth of it.

There is evidence that legalizing abortion strongly affected crime rates in the 90's all the way to the mid 2010's, largely due to the factors you mentioned here. It is not definitive but is a pretty strong argument imho.

The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime over the Last Two Decades | Stanford Law School

Donohue and Levitt (2001) presented evidence that the legalization of abortion in the early 1970s played an important role in the crime drop of the 19

law.stanford.edu

We estimate that overall crime fell 17.5% from 1998 to 2014 due to legalized abortion— a decline of 1% per year. From 1991 to 2014, the violent and property crime rates each fell by 50%. Legalized abortion is estimated to have reduced violent crime by 47% and property crime by 33% over this period, and thus can explain most of the observed crime decline.

https://scholar.harvard.edu/barro/files/99_0927_crimerate_bw.pdf

New Study Claims Abortion is Behind Decrease in Crime

From Insight to Impact

www.prb.org

The researchers then looked at abortion demographics and noted that women who have abortions tend to be young, unmarried, and poor. Children born to these mothers, like children of mothers who have little education or who do not want to be mothers, are at higher risk for committing crime, according to the authors. If today’s 18-to-24-year-olds did not include as many of these high-risk children, that might explain the group’s lower per capita crime rate.

The authors stress that the availability of legalized abortion may not simply have reduced fertility but may also have delayed it and improved the environment of subsequent children. Wanted children who are born to married, supportive parents are less inclined toward criminal behavior. In many instances, the authors reason, abortion may have given young, single, poor, and often minority women time to mature, get jobs, marry, and become more economically stable and then have children who would have a lower risk for committing crime.

 

[fishonjazz]

White nationalists do realize that and it is why they stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you.



Institutionalized abortion in America, from its earliest days under eugenicist Margaret Sanger up until today, has been used to reduce the fertility rate of people with the immutable characteristics that seem to be the focus of your concern. Killing unwanted babies is an icky position but I will admit a perverse genius in branding it "pro-choice". It sounds way better than "pro-genocide" even if pro-genocide is closer to the truth of it.

What are you going on about here?


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[One Brow]

Institutionalized abortion in America, from its earliest days under eugenicist Margaret Sanger up until today, has been used to reduce the fertility rate of people with the immutable characteristics that seem to be the focus of your concern.

Sanger was a eugenicist, but sought to make abortion broadly available for people of all classes.

Killing unwanted babies is an icky position but I will admit a perverse genius in branding it "pro-choice". It sounds way better than "pro-genocide" even if pro-genocide is closer to the truth of it.

Disparities in Abortion Rates: A Public Health Approach - PMC

Women of lower socioeconomic status and women of color in the United States have higher rates of abortion than women of higher socioeconomic status and White women. Opponents of abortion use these statistics to argue that abortion providers are ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Abortion rates are higher among the poor because unwanted pregnancy rates are higher. Since the family sizes of black people, Hispanics, etc. are already larger than white people, access to abortion would be spectacularly ineffective as "genocide", were that the intent.

Still, this is pretty amusing how conservatives think. You don't get how race affects society or why, you don't understand why you can't act in oppressive ways, and your conclusion seems to be that if you just mention race, everyone will genuflect to your position, as you imagine you are being asked to do. I don't see how that's easier than just being an empathic human, but you do you.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Dr Kevin Kruse did a thread a few years ago on Sanger that most likely refutes the garbage that Al is regurgitating from his RW handlers. Im Not unblocking him or reading his posts. It’s a waste of time arguing with someone who so often lies. It’s sad how they keep recycling the same talking pts, as if the rest of us are as dumb as they are.

This thread I’ve bookmarked for a few years and destroys most of the disinformation the right spews about race and abortion.


View: https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1056965284110704640?s=21&t=rRbAivXVFf8e2g1pSJTvAw



View: https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1056965316180406272?s=21&t=rRbAivXVFf8e2g1pSJTvAw

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Fact Check: Was Planned Parenthood Started To 'Control' The Black Population?

"I know who Margaret Sanger is, and I know that she believed in eugenics, and that she was not particularly enamored with black people," candidate Ben Carson said of the organization's founder.

www.npr.org

I tend to agree that Sanger wasn't directly trying to get rid of blacks or minorities, but she clearly thought poor uneducated people were inferior and should have fewer children to create a better race of people. It was a different time, but some very scary was of thinking which led to mass forced sterilization for many, including may native americans. Sanger weas anti-Nazi, but some of her thoughts of creating a superior race by weeding out the inferior babies through abortion is simply awful.

The problem is the GOP wants to stop people from aborting their children, but also have no care to help these people support their children or bring them out of endless cycles of poverty.

Regardless of the status of abortion rights, we need to end the cycle of the poor and uneducated in this country, and no, that does not mean we just throw money at the "problem". It means actually planning to course correct systemic issues. Put a system in place where good education and opportunity is available for all using some carrot and some stick. Incentives for parents to get their kids to graduate from high school AND college or a trade school through tax credits for low income families. Tie higher minimum wage for those with a diploma. Increase teacher pay for those teachers that are actually putting in the time and making a difference and trim that fat for the teachers that do nothing. There is some low-hanging fruit opportunities here, and if done right, the additional income attributed to people getting better opportunities will increase the tax base.

Not a simple thing to do, but I'd rather focus on that as a people and fix our country vs. the amount of overseas spending we do. Help our people first.

 

[One Brow]

The problem is the GOP wants to stop people from aborting their children, but also have no care to help these people support their children or bring them out of endless cycles of poverty.

Which shows, at the very least, that they don't have carefully thought-out policies, since the best way to reduce abortions would be to get people out of poverty and make birth control easily available.

 

[Red]

Best of luck to the nation we know as the United States. It’s going to need it.

Divided States of America: Roe v Wade is ‘precursor to larger struggles’

The demise of the 1973 ruling could drive the biggest wedge yet between what appears to be two irreconcilable nations

www.theguardian.com

Liberal states would become sanctuaries for women seeking abortions and saturated with providers; conservative states would turn into deserts that ban the procedure and criminalise doctors who provide it. Some wonder if the country’s social fabric, frayed by four years of Donald Trump’s presidency, can survive.

“The death of Roe is going to tear America apart,” ran the headline of a New York Times column by Michelle Goldberg, which concluded that “the death of Roe will intensify our national animus, turning red states and blue into mutually hostile legal territories. You think we hate each other now? Just wait until the new round of lawsuits start.”

Simon Schama, a historian, tweeted: “When Roe vs Wade is overturned it will be time to find a different name for this country.”

……
Fareed Zakaria, an author and broadcaster, warned in the Washington Post: “You cannot really understand America anymore by looking at averages. It has become two countries. One is urban, more educated, multiracial, secular and largely left of center. The other is rural, less educated, religious, white and largely right of center.”

Blue America would fit comfortably with northern European Protestant countries, Zakaria said, while red America’s cultural values make it closer to Nigeria and Saudi Arabia.

“For the country’s political future, the central question is now this: can these two Americas find a way to live, work, cooperate with and tolerate one another? If not, the abortion battle may be the precursor to even larger struggles.”