Time to shake it up!

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I see what KqWIN is saying. I do think the team has gotten a bit stale. Not that they arent fun to watch, but the lack of young emerging talent has been kind of a drag. The fact that Ochai is basically non-playable is a big part of that.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

I think maybe you don't like basketball. I have looked forward to almost every game and found many things quite enjoyable. Not every night can be game 7 of the finals. The players and coaches are always trying. I don't know that there has ever been this much talent, skill, and parity in the league.

As far as meaning in the regular season... Landing in the top 6 really matters as the play-in can leave you open to 1 game flukiness. As much is made of the evil that is tanking... how many teams are really tanking right now. Like 3-4 maybe... I think the Hornets, Bulls, Wiz are accidentally garbage.

I think you are placing too much value on how the league is covered by the major outlets. People love the transactional side of the game... sometimes more than the game. You really kinda need to separate the two. I wanted us to tank as it is the best long term strategy imo. During the games though... I always want us to win.

Long story short... if you aren't enjoying this Jazz season I believe that is a you problem and I would guess most here are having a good time.... even if we occasionally fake trade our beloved players.

Agreed, however after two b2b particularly painful beatdowns and when you factor in all the narrow victories and our awful defensive rating, you start to question our legitimacy, I mean at least I do.

With all our duplication it seems like a fairly simple fix with the right team and the right player swaps. Well at least in theory….OK the theory in my head anyway.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

Nice thread. Personally, I think it's too early for Jazz trades. Our team hasn't been fully healthy for a while and lost ground in the standings. But we shouldn't forget that between New Year and the trade deadline (February 9th) we have 12 home games and 5 road games.

Fair enough and point well taken Sir! I admit that I’m a bit of a cynic and automatically look for the catch. The catch I’ve come up with for these hauls in the Gobert/Mitchell deals is that basically either these guys lack some degree of defensive and certain decision making skills or they lack confidence or both (with the possible exception of Kessler). But maybe you’re correct and time heals all wounds.

 

[Park Bites]

I would guess the 4 players on the Magic that could be moved are

Suggs
Hampton
Bamba
Harris

Now, what would you give up for any of those players? I would assume that would be looking for a wing type of player.

I could see their interest in Vanderbilt although I think they are hoping Isaac can play that type of part with the better offense when he returns.
Beasley maybe but he doesn't seem to fit their timeline either
If I am them I am looking for draft capital and I don't see the Jazz giving that up.
If they give up both Suggs and Hampton I could see them wanting a guard in return.

With that said I am a huge fan of Hampton. 6'5" combo guards are nice to have. I could see him developing with Sexton.
Suggs has been a disappointment so far but again a 6'5" combo guard is nice.
Bamba at this point is the biggest money trade chip to make things happen. I wouldn't mind a player like him on the bench learning from Kessler.

All things considered, I love what the magic has put together.

Fultz is actually looking like a good player. Anthony is a nice scoring punch off the bench.
Biggest hole seems to be 2 guards and they have Hampton and Suggs they hoped to fill that. Wagner could play here but I think is a better fit at the 3
With Wagner here, they look solid with Ross being a capable vet backup
They picked right with Banchero he will be a stud. If Isaac comes back he will be an amazing bench piece here
WCJ is pretty solid here with Bol Boll looking like Wemby light.

Could you imagine if they got VM in the draft? or even scoot? This team is looking to explode in the next few years.

Not to mention they are looking at 24 million under the cap next year and hardly anything the following year.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I see what KqWIN is saying. I do think the team has gotten a bit stale. Not that they arent fun to watch, but the lack of young emerging talent has been kind of a drag. The fact that Ochai is basically non-playable is a big part of that.

Yeah the team has gotten super stale... its been two whole games since we beat a playoff team in OT in dramatic fashion. BOOOOOOORINGGGGGG!!!

 

[KqWIN]

I think maybe you don't like basketball. I have looked forward to almost every game and found many things quite enjoyable. Not every night can be game 7 of the finals. The players and coaches are always trying. I don't know that there has ever been this much talent, skill, and parity in the league.

As far as meaning in the regular season... Landing in the top 6 really matters as the play-in can leave you open to 1 game flukiness. As much is made of the evil that is tanking... how many teams are really tanking right now. Like 3-4 maybe... I think the Hornets, Bulls, Wiz are accidentally garbage.

I think you are placing too much value on how the league is covered by the major outlets. People love the transactional side of the game... sometimes more than the game. You really kinda need to separate the two. I wanted us to tank as it is the best long term strategy imo. During the games though... I always want us to win.

Long story short... if you aren't enjoying this Jazz season I believe that is a you problem and I would guess most here are having a good time.... even if we occasionally fake trade our beloved players.

That's one way to put it. I would say I feel this way because of how much I like basketball. And it is a personal problem, like I said I wish I was with the people who were enjoying this season (not just the Jazz), but I cannot. I'm not the fun police. As stated, some people enjoy the low consequences of the games not mattering. For me, I prefer that the games do matter. I don't need them to be a game 7, but I need them to have some consequence. To each their own, nobody is wrong for how much they value the consequences and stakes of any given game. I'll always watch basketball, and I still catch up on every game eventually, but that's because I like basketball. The league and NBA as a competition, it's just garbage. It's not a handful of teams losing on purpose, it's the lack of meaning for actually winning the game. Regular season games just aren't relevant for any team that is relevant.

You're not wrong about people liking the transactional side of the game. I love it. But I think it's gotten so titled that it's 99% transactional and 1% actually the game. When we're at the point that trading someone like Lauri is a legitimate thought, it really kinda shows the imbalance IMO.

 

[Shad]

Please change the title to "Time to TANK it up." Thank you

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That's one way to put it. I would say I feel this way because of how much I like basketball. And it is a personal problem, like I said I wish I was with the people who were enjoying this season (not just the Jazz), but I cannot. I'm not the fun police. As stated, some people enjoy the low consequences of the games not mattering. For me, I prefer that the games do matter. I don't need them to be a game 7, but I need them to have some consequence. To each their own, nobody is wrong for how much they value the consequences and stakes of any given game. I'll always watch basketball, and I still catch up on every game eventually, but that's because I like basketball. The league and NBA as a competition, it's just garbage. It's not a handful of teams losing on purpose, it's the lack of meaning for actually winning the game. Regular season games just aren't relevant for any team that is relevant.

You're not wrong about people liking the transactional side of the game. I love it. But I think it's gotten so titled that it's 99% transactional and 1% actually the game. When we're at the point that trading someone like Lauri is a legitimate thought, it really kinda shows the imbalance IMO.

Well if you like basketball maybe you aren't paying attention. While the regular season will always have less meaning than the playoffs, games have more consequences now than maybe ever. You said the regular season games are relevant for teams that are relevant.... The ****ing Warriors are out of the playoffs in they started today... the team that won the title and lost no significant pieces will have to fight their asses off to make sure they get into the playoffs. A team with two top 10 (or maybe 15) talents is going to have to fight to make the playoffs. You have like 2-3 favorites to win the title but a group of like 3-4 below them that could make a legitimate run... there are different styles and matchups that will favor certain teams... and jockeying for playoff position will be critical.

It is not 99% vs. 1% and that is a wild exaggeration. The product is obviously doing pretty well since franchise values, tv deals, etc are all headed to the moon.

Just feels like you are yelling at clouds and assuming everyone else is too.

 

[KqWIN]

Well if you like basketball maybe you aren't paying attention. While the regular season will always have less meaning than the playoffs, games have more consequences now than maybe ever. You said the regular season games are relevant for teams that are relevant.... The ****ing Warriors are out of the playoffs in they started today... the team that won the title and lost no significant pieces will have to fight their asses off to make sure they get into the playoffs. A team with two top 10 (or maybe 15) talents is going to have to fight to make the playoffs. You have like 2-3 favorites to win the title but a group of like 3-4 below them that could make a legitimate run... there are different styles and matchups that will favor certain teams... and jockeying for playoff position will be critical.

It is not 99% vs. 1% and that is a wild exaggeration. The product is obviously doing pretty well since franchise values, tv deals, etc are all headed to the moon.

Just feels like you are yelling at clouds and assuming everyone else is too.

I would never assume everyone else is. Like I said, I'm not the fun police. I don't decide why someone enjoys something. I've been very clear that this is just how I feel. Explicitly saying this multiple times. It very much feels like you're the telling me what I should enjoy.

btw, the franchise values, tv deals, etc skyrocketing have very little to do with the quality of the every day product.

 

[Eddie Zero]

What fantasy world are you living in? It would take Clarkson or Beasley plus probably 2 unprotected 1sts for OG.

no way. he wants out kind of is my impression, he is not in their the long term plans either imo. JC or Beasley helps them more this season in win now mode than keeping OG. they have enough defense. 2 unprotecteds? smh sure maybe if the picks are the nets and a cle pick the year after they finish 1st in the east or something lol You must really like OG

 

[KqWIN]

This is a pretty wild take. I think the league is in a great place. Parity is at an all-time high. Tanking isn’t incentivized as much as it used to be due to flattened lottery odds.

This season has already been a huge success due to the success of Markkanen. I don’t think a single person thought we’d end up with an all-star level player in year 1 of the post Gobert/Mitchell teams.

A reason a team like Toronto blowing it up is logical because they are who they are at this point. Ever since Kawhi left they have been a middle of the pack playoff team. How many years of of that should they endure before trying something different?

I think I have enjoyed this season more than the past couple ones besides the year we had the best record in the league.

The key is that winning is not incentivized. It's two sided, what is the incentive to lose and what is the incentive to win. Like I said, it's not really the handful of teams that are tanking hard that bother me. It's the lack of teams where the games truly matter. If the game matters a lot, chances are that team is not relevant anyways. Maybe this year is an exception with the Warriors, but forgive me if I can enjoy the league by anxiously watching if the Warriors win or not as they casually go through their season. I'm not really engaged in their season, happy for you if they are, but it also means basically nothing as Jazz fan. The Jazz are a prime example of a team where it doesn't really matter if they win or not. This season of, if we win cool but if not it's ok....but also shouldn't we really be losing.....yeah it's not my thing.

I think the last point you made really hones in on my perspective. There are many reasons to enjoy the NBA. The Jazz have a lot of little story lines and they are fun to watch just from a pure basketball perspective, on offense especially. But what I enjoy most about the NBA and sport is competition and stakes. Some people have outwardly said they enjoy low stakes games. Nothing wrong with that. I want to feel something, good or bad, if my team wins or loses. That's what gets me hooked. Last year, the stakes were infinitely higher and the Jazz did win a lot more games. Depending on what you prioritize, your enjoyment could be completely different. "Enjoyed" is probably the wrong word because the season was obviously filled with disappointment. But I was infinitely more engaged.

I do enjoy this team for a lot of the reasons you listed, especially Lauri. The thought of trading him, and that being a legitimate perspective, just makes me really hate the current meta in the NBA. If it's even a thought that the instant we get someone good, maybe we should just trade him so we can suck instead.....I hate it. I don't think that the thought is wrong, it's the just how the NBA works these days and that's what I hate.

 

[HermanG]

That's one way to put it. I would say I feel this way because of how much I like basketball. And it is a personal problem, like I said I wish I was with the people who were enjoying this season (not just the Jazz), but I cannot. I'm not the fun police. As stated, some people enjoy the low consequences of the games not mattering. For me, I prefer that the games do matter. I don't need them to be a game 7, but I need them to have some consequence. To each their own, nobody is wrong for how much they value the consequences and stakes of any given game. I'll always watch basketball, and I still catch up on every game eventually, but that's because I like basketball. The league and NBA as a competition, it's just garbage. It's not a handful of teams losing on purpose, it's the lack of meaning for actually winning the game. Regular season games just aren't relevant for any team that is relevant.

You're not wrong about people liking the transactional side of the game. I love it. But I think it's gotten so titled that it's 99% transactional and 1% actually the game. When we're at the point that trading someone like Lauri is a legitimate thought, it really kinda shows the imbalance IMO.

Man this is a fan board. We beat the Hornets and people start elevating guys to HoF... we lose to Bucks and the same guys want to trade everyone and move the team to Alaska.

Just enjoy the emotional roller coaster with a grain of salt and be goddamn grateful none of us actually runs the team.