Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[Tom349]

I really don't understand vando hate. In the games I have watched I've seen an absolute keeper. The guy just hustles and rebounds. I have seen games where his shot is off but he's young. Give the kid a shot

Young player who is figuring out his game. Shows some really good moments and the odd really bad moment. Definitely worth developing.

 

[Park Bites]

I dont have a problem trading anyone I just dont want the jazz to make a trade to make a trade. I want a clear focus.

Are we tanking?
Are we developing young talent?
Are we trying to be competitive?

I dont want to get stuck in mediocrity

 

[HermanG]

I dont have a problem trading anyone I just dont want the jazz to make a trade to make a trade. I want a clear focus.

Are we tanking?
Are we developing young talent?
Are we trying to be competitive?

I dont want to get stuck in mediocrity

I completely agree, but also want to point out our massive pile of assets means its very hard to get stuck in the middle unless the GM stops doing his job completely.

Even if we end up mediocre this year, we have raised the value of several guys in our roster and can end up trading them in the future to move up in the draft or to get more assets. It does add a few years to the process but it puts us in an even better position.

I mean how many of our players were worth a FRP coming into this year? Right now Lauri alone is worth at least one very high pick or multiple mid firsts. Imo Vando, Kessler, Beasley have all raised their value and are all worth FRP (Kessler a lottery pick, other 2 late FRP I would say). I think Sexton is on that track as well... albeit he is getting tough love right now and will have to show up more in bigger minutes.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I dont have a problem trading anyone I just dont want the jazz to make a trade to make a trade. I want a clear focus.

Are we tanking?
Are we developing young talent?
Are we trying to be competitive?

I dont want to get stuck in mediocrity

Bruh it's currently impossible for the Jazz to be stuck in mediocrity

 

[Bodhi]

I completely agree, but also want to point out our massive pile of assets means its very hard to get stuck in the middle unless the GM stops doing his job completely.

Even if we end up mediocre this year, we have raised the value of several guys in our roster and can end up trading them in the future to move up in the draft or to get more assets. It does add a few years to the process but it puts us in an even better position.

I mean how many of our players were worth a FRP coming into this year? Right now Lauri alone is worth at least one very high pick or multiple mid firsts. Imo Vando, Kessler, Beasley have all raised their value and are all worth FRP (Kessler a lottery pick, other 2 late FRP I would say). I think Sexton is on that track as well... albeit he is getting tough love right now and will have to show up more in bigger minutes.

This is forgotten so often here.

Those “stuck in mediocrity” examples are always teams with no draft capital (sometimes not even their own) and are capped out for years to come with a mediocre roster.

We are neither.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Imo Vando, Kessler, Beasley have all raised their value and are all worth FRP (Kessler a lottery pick, other 2 late FRP I would say)

With all due respect... not a chance in hell.

As much as I like Kessler, at this point there's no way anyone would part with a lottery pick for a non-shooting, soft center with pretty meh athleticism who's hitting .547 from the FT line and can't switch anywhere close to the perimeter. He's played well overall for a rookie big, but to bring back a lottery pick, he'd have to have a much higher ceiling. Kessler may become a guy with that kind of value in the eyes of NBA GM's, but he's not that player yet. Rim protection is valuable in this league, but Kessler still has some huge weaknesses that really limit how much he can be a part of a modern NBA offense.

As for Vanderbilt, his stock is dropping, not rising. Frankly, his RAPTOR numbers are straight up shocking. In fact, it could be argued that he should be out of the rotation altogether if we're trying to win. At the very least he should be sent to the bench because his fit in our starting lineup is terrible. Now, I guess it is possible that there's a few teams in the league with plenty of firepower that could be willing to try to replicate Vando's Minny role and trade for him. But for a FRP? He's not a difference maker.

Beasley will always have a job in the NBA because he's a shooter who can get red hot. Unfortunately he's has been awful lately, which hasn't helped his stock, but Beasley is still the only one of these three guys who could probably bring back a reasonable FRP right now if a team desperate for scoring came along.

 

[oldtimer]

With all due respect... not a chance in hell.

As much as I like Kessler, at this point there's no way anyone would part with a lottery pick for a non-shooting, soft center with pretty meh athleticism who's hitting .547 from the FT line and can't switch anywhere close to the perimeter. He's played well overall for a rookie big, but to bring back a lottery pick, he'd have to have a much higher ceiling. Kessler may become a guy with that kind of value in the eyes of NBA GM's, but he's not that player yet. Rim protection is valuable in this league, but Kessler still has some huge weaknesses that really limit how much he can be a part of a modern NBA offense.

As for Vanderbilt, his stock is dropping, not rising. Frankly, his RAPTOR numbers are straight up shocking. In fact, it could be argued that he should be out of the rotation altogether if we're trying to win. At the very least he should be sent to the bench because his fit in our starting lineup is terrible. Now, I guess it is possible that there's a few teams in the league with plenty of firepower that could be willing to try to replicate Vando's Minny role and trade for him. But for a FRP? He's not a difference maker.

Beasley will always have a job in the NBA because he's a shooter who can get red hot. Unfortunately he's has been awful lately, which hasn't helped his stock, but Beasley is still the only one of these three guys who could probably bring back a reasonable FRP right now if a team desperate for scoring came along.

With young players you're going to have good games and bad games. Yes the raptor game was bad, ok. What you don't do is pull the kid from the lineup. He had a great game a couple games prior to the Raptor game. You got to rife the Mellow wave with young players. Not too hi or too low.

 

[HermanG]

With all due respect... not a chance in hell.

As much as I like Kessler, at this point there's no way anyone would part with a lottery pick for a non-shooting, soft center with pretty meh athleticism who's hitting .547 from the FT line and can't switch anywhere close to the perimeter. He's played well overall for a rookie big, but to bring back a lottery pick, he'd have to have a much higher ceiling. Kessler may become a guy with that kind of value in the eyes of NBA GM's, but he's not that player yet. Rim protection is valuable in this league, but Kessler still has some huge weaknesses that really limit how much he can be a part of a modern NBA offense.

As for Vanderbilt, his stock is dropping, not rising. Frankly, his RAPTOR numbers are straight up shocking. In fact, it could be argued that he should be out of the rotation altogether if we're trying to win. At the very least he should be sent to the bench because his fit in our starting lineup is terrible. Now, I guess it is possible that there's a few teams in the league with plenty of firepower that could be willing to try to replicate Vando's Minny role and trade for him. But for a FRP? He's not a difference maker.

Beasley will always have a job in the NBA because he's a shooter who can get red hot. Unfortunately he's has been awful lately, which hasn't helped his stock, but Beasley is still the only one of these three guys who could probably bring back a reasonable FRP right now if a team desperate for scoring came along.

You have good arguments there. Just clarifying that I meant low lottery pick for Kessler.

Vando has been mentioned enough in trade rumors to believe he is seen as an asset. Late FRP should not be out of the question. I agree the RAPTOR and VAR numbers are horrible though. Dont know how much weight scouting departments give to those.

 

[Swuul]

With all due respect... not a chance in hell.

As much as I like Kessler, at this point there's no way anyone would part with a lottery pick for a non-shooting, soft center with pretty meh athleticism who's hitting .547 from the FT line and can't switch anywhere close to the perimeter. He's played well overall for a rookie big, but to bring back a lottery pick, he'd have to have a much higher ceiling. Kessler may become a guy with that kind of value in the eyes of NBA GM's, but he's not that player yet. Rim protection is valuable in this league, but Kessler still has some huge weaknesses that really limit how much he can be a part of a modern NBA offense.

As for Vanderbilt, his stock is dropping, not rising. Frankly, his RAPTOR numbers are straight up shocking. In fact, it could be argued that he should be out of the rotation altogether if we're trying to win. At the very least he should be sent to the bench because his fit in our starting lineup is terrible. Now, I guess it is possible that there's a few teams in the league with plenty of firepower that could be willing to try to replicate Vando's Minny role and trade for him. But for a FRP? He's not a difference maker.

Beasley will always have a job in the NBA because he's a shooter who can get red hot. Unfortunately he's has been awful lately, which hasn't helped his stock, but Beasley is still the only one of these three guys who could probably bring back a reasonable FRP right now if a team desperate for scoring came along.

With all due respect, there are so many things wrong here, that it is bewildering.

Kessler is an astonishing athlete for a seven footer; if he is meh, then 95% of all 7 footers in the NBA are outright atrocious. It is extremely hard to say what his ceiling is, as he has only just shown his floor. Shooting is a skill many NBA players not called Ben get better and better at; not all are Jimmy Butlers, but most get way better than they are in their rookie year. Kessler most certainly would for a trade to happen need a lottery FRP plus a roleplayer.

RAPTOR, being a box-score based stat, is an incredibly poor meter for players like Vando, who do all those small things that glues a bunch of players into a team; the hustle, the energy, the ability to improve those around him are not shown in RAPTOR or similar stats. Mk 1 eyeball test seems to suggest his value is in fact increasing, and most definitely a FRP would be needed to move him.

The league knows who Beasley is. A few good or bad matches doesn't change that. His value is not going to fluctuate anywhere based on a slump or redhot strike; he might in fact be hard to move for any decent return, most likely if he is moved it will be as a filler in addition to someone else.

 

[sip]

I completely agree, but also want to point out our massive pile of assets means its very hard to get stuck in the middle unless the GM stops doing his job completely.

Even if we end up mediocre this year, we have raised the value of several guys in our roster and can end up trading them in the future to move up in the draft or to get more assets. It does add a few years to the process but it puts us in an even better position.

I mean how many of our players were worth a FRP coming into this year? Right now Lauri alone is worth at least one very high pick or multiple mid firsts. Imo Vando, Kessler, Beasley have all raised their value and are all worth FRP (Kessler a lottery pick, other 2 late FRP I would say). I think Sexton is on that track as well... albeit he is getting tough love right now and will have to show up more in bigger minutes.

I actually think it is pretty easy to get stuck in the middle if you don't pick a direction. We need to make sure we don't lose assets for nothing and maximize the trade value of others. I'm very concerned that Clarkson bolts in free agency so I would be shopping him hard. He also plays a position where we have a ton of young players that needs minutes for development so we can figure out if they are keepers or not. At some point the goal this season needs to be clarity when it comes to how Sexton, NAW, THT and ideally Ochai could fit long term because that has a direct impact on how we approach the draft. A lot of the time there isn't going to be separation between a couple players that you are looking at to draft so position of need becomes the difference maker. I think in this draft in particular that could be the tie breaker since there are so many solid looking players.

 

[sip]

With all due respect, there are so many things wrong here, that it is bewildering.

Kessler is an astonishing athlete for a seven footer; if he is meh, then 95% of all 7 footers in the NBA are outright atrocious. It is extremely hard to say what his ceiling is, as he has only just shown his floor. Shooting is a skill many NBA players not called Ben get better and better at; not all are Jimmy Butlers, but most get way better than they are in their rookie year. Kessler most certainly would for a trade to happen need a lottery FRP plus a roleplayer.

RAPTOR, being a box-score based stat, is an incredibly poor meter for players like Vando, who do all those small things that glues a bunch of players into a team; the hustle, the energy, the ability to improve those around him are not shown in RAPTOR or similar stats. Mk 1 eyeball test seems to suggest his value is in fact increasing, and most definitely a FRP would be needed to move him.

The league knows who Beasley is. A few good or bad matches doesn't change that. His value is not going to fluctuate anywhere based on a slump or redhot strike; he might in fact be hard to move for any decent return, most likely if he is moved it will be as a filler in addition to someone else.

Kessler is a much better player than Tremendous was making him out to be but from an athlete perspective he is definitely not an astonishing athlete for a 7 footer. He is a solid athlete though which is just fine when you are his size and have really good hands.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I actually think it is pretty easy to get stuck in the middle if you don't pick a direction. We need to make sure we don't lose assets for nothing and maximize the trade value of others. I'm very concerned that Clarkson bolts in free agency so I would be shopping him hard. He also plays a position where we have a ton of young players that needs minutes for development so we can figure out if they are keepers or not. At some point the goal this season needs to be clarity when it comes to how Sexton, NAW, THT and ideally Ochai could fit long term because that has a direct impact on how we approach the draft. A lot of the time there isn't going to be separation between a couple players that you are looking at to draft so position of need becomes the difference maker. I think in this draft in particular that could be the tie breaker since there are so many solid looking players.

The picks only help us when we use them... either for players or in trades. So the way we get out of the middle is to hit on 1 or more of this year's picks. It is not a certainty by any means. We also have guys on the roster that may not provide any value in a couple years like Mike and KO.

I don't see us moving the future picks tbh... so missing on this year's picks would mean a 2 year trip on the treadmill - We may not even have a pick in 2024 unless we tank next year. It's why I'd like us to make a move to build up some additional assets that will cost us some wins this year. Even if we drop to like 8-9 instead of 14ish I think it adds enough potential to move into the top 4 and worst case grab a better prospect. Look at the Warriors for example... they didn't whiff on all three lotto picks they had but none look like they will be stars... none of them may be difference makers. We just have a lot riding on this year's draft.