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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yes, positional talk is often annoying and convoluted, but in general you want Lauri being guarded by the opposing team's 4 (aka their 2nd tallest/slowest player in most cases). You dont want to give them a non-skilled player to hid weak defensive links on. You dont want to put out a non-shooter that shrinks the court. You dont want Lauri floating too much on the perimeter, you want him to have space to cut/post/drive.
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Right... its just funny the way we talk about it... Lauri is going to play to his strengths whether he is a 3 or a 4 at this point. On defense you are always one switch away from having your matchups all mixed up.
 
HermanG said:
He is. Cy said playing him as a 3 is a terrible idea though, and I'm waiting for his reasoning on that.
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Does he play any different when Beasley is starting than when KO is starting? In one lineup he's considered the 4 and in the other he's a 3.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yall are too rigid with definitions on positions. The best thing we can do next to Lauri and Kessler is put a long 3 and D wing... full stop. Can you put a PF oriented guy in that lineup? Sure... but not sure that is the best defensive alignment and the PF needs to be able to shoot. Putting perimeter defense and shooting around Lauri/Walker would turn be great... if that SF had some passing chops and playmaking ability then you are cooking with fish oil.
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I agree and I only put the pg,sg,sf,pf,c as a positional awareness. The nba is all about switching and creating mismatches.
Hardy has been starting kessler, olynyk and markkanen together. Does that mean he starts 2 centers and a power forward?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Does he play any different when Beasley is starting than when KO is starting? In one lineup he's considered the 4 and in the other he's a 3.
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Yes his FGA and PPG has been lower but I think that has less to do with him at 4 but more to do with Beasley being shot-happy.

The bigger probelm though is that either you crowd the backfield or Beasley goes to space in the weak side corner and plays like a 4 anyways. Lauri shot chart, drive chart and efficiency strongly suggest he is better when he gets the ball above the break or cutting in from free throw line extended... than cutting closer to baseline. I'm sure you have seen this and can clearly remember his "money plays".

He is pretty nice when getting the ball on the high/low post or elbow, but sample size for that is REALLY low. Like little over 1 post up per game low.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Does he play any different when Beasley is starting than when KO is starting? In one lineup he's considered the 4 and in the other he's a 3.
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www.statmuse.com

Lauri Markkanen Shot Chart By Season | StatMuse

Lauri Markkanen shot chart by season
www.statmuse.com www.statmuse.com
As you can see from the distribution, its very backcourt heavy. Only 77 corner threes for the year (albeit, money efficiency on those)... and 260 threes from above the break.

Also Cy said he should be guarded by 4s.. but my eyes tell me its the smaller guys he really feasts on. So adding a PF is the thing that really creates mismatches across the court (albeit I agree with you it needs to be a 3&D guy with perimeter quickness, so like a 6"8 dude or something). Also this is why I think John Collins would be a better fit with Lauri than most people think.
 
So we went from tanking to just tanking Lauri's play?

He's gonna expend all his energy on wrestling with 5s (where he's often overmatched), chasing rebounds (which is def not his strength) - so he can't use his strengths on offense, because he's drained.

Smart.
 
HermanG said:
Yes his FGA and PPG has been lower but I think that has less to do with him at 4 but more to do with Beasley being shot-happy.

The bigger probelm though is that either you crowd the backfield or Beasley goes to space in the weak side corner and plays like a 4 anyways. Lauri shot chart, drive chart and efficiency strongly suggest he is better when he gets the ball above the break or cutting in from free throw line extended... than cutting closer to baseline. I'm sure you have seen this and can clearly remember his "money plays".

He is pretty nice when getting the ball on the high/low post or elbow, but sample size for that is REALLY low. Like little over 1 post up per game low.
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I just think if you are designing the perfect front court mate for Lauri... that player is going to very much be a SF and that doesn't mean Lauri has to play like a traditional 4. Defensively having Lauri guard the Paul George's of the world or Mikal Bridges is a terrible idea.... I think its obvious that Lauri is like the fully idealized idea/version of what you'd want as a modern PF. Switchy, rim protection, plays great on the perimeter, if you put a SF on him he will be too big so you need someone with PF size that moves well enough on the perimeter.

With Kessler that PF/SF can't be a non-shooter... you are more likely to find the defense/shooting etc in a bigger SF than in a PF.
 
HermanG said:
www.statmuse.com

Lauri Markkanen Shot Chart By Season | StatMuse

Lauri Markkanen shot chart by season
www.statmuse.com www.statmuse.com
As you can see from the distribution, its very backcourt heavy. Only 77 corner threes for the year (albeit, money efficiency on those)... and 260 threes from above the break.

Also Cy said he should be guarded by 4s.. but my eyes tell me its the smaller guys he really feasts on. So adding a PF is the thing that really creates mismatches across the court (albeit I agree with you it needs to be a 3&D guy with perimeter quickness, so like a 6"8 dude or something). Also this is why I think John Collins would be a better fit with Lauri than most people think.
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Who is better at guarding guys on the perimeter... guys that play SF and do it regularly or PFs? Ben Simmons gave Lauri problems but there aren't many guys as good as Ben on defense and tbh they let Ben foul the **** out of Lauri. And honestly it doesn't matter all that much who you put next to Lauri... unless you put a stud next to him... the opposing team will put their best defender on Lauri. He will be the focus. I think more preference needs to be placed on the defense... and you just want that other partner to be a shooter. JC is good in a small ball lineup with him at 5 and Lauri at 4... but I don't think the starting lineup is awesome with JC in there.
 
I love people in this thread desperate for draft picks yet see a project player likes bones in his second year and are like he's terrible and makes lots of mistakes! That's pretty much 99% of all draft picks for about 3 years.

Players with upside who haven't figured it out and might need more development seem like a decent option for this team.

Bones specifically though I haven't really watched enough though to be honest.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I just think if you are designing the perfect front court mate for Lauri... that player is going to very much be a SF and that doesn't mean Lauri has to play like a traditional 4. Defensively having Lauri guard the Paul George's of the world or Mikal Bridges is a terrible idea.... I think its obvious that Lauri is like the fully idealized idea/version of what you'd want as a modern PF. Switchy, rim protection, plays great on the perimeter, if you put a SF on him he will be too big so you need someone with PF size that moves well enough on the perimeter.

With Kessler that PF/SF can't be a non-shooter... you are more likely to find the defense/shooting etc in a bigger SF than in a PF.
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This is a list from NBA.com of the top SF and PF coming into season (not my list, dont know why AD is PF). Which group Lauri belongs in based on the way he plays?

SF:
  • #8 Brandon Ingram. ...
  • #7 Andrew Wiggins. ...
  • #6 Jimmy Butler. ...
  • #5 Paul George. ...
  • #4 Jayson Tatum. ...
  • #3 Kawhi Leonard. ...
  • #2 Kevin Durant. ...
  • #1 LeBron James. Expect James to be more motivated than ever.
PF:
  • #8 Draymond Green. ...
  • #7 Pascal Siakam. ...
  • #6 Paolo Banchero. ...
  • #5 Anthony Davis. ...
  • #4 Evan Mobley. ...
  • #3 Karl-Anthony Towns. ...
  • #2 Zion Williamson. ...
  • #1 Giannis Antetokounmpo.
 
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