David Locke - Utah Jazz are NOT tanking

[Tremendous Upside]

Explain to me how yanking out 3 starters from the team approaching the playoff race for effectively a future protected draft pick doesn’t constitute “intentionally fielding non-competitive team”?

You don’t do that if you want to make the playoffs.. and in fact no teams wanting to make the playoffs have done that or would even consider doing that. Unless they’re tanking.

Why didn't they just trade Lauri too then? His value has literally never been higher, he's pretty much the most efficient player in the league, and he's hurting the tank by playing HUGE minutes. Doesn't make any sense.

And before you say "Of course they won't trade him, they want to build around him"... that sounds and awful lot like the the Jazz have found their franchise guy. You don't tank if that's the case. You start using your treasure chest of assets, quickly, to put good players around the guy you see as the building block.

Tanking doesn't make sense because it separates Lauri's timeline from that of the team's. It increases both the risk of him not resigning AND, even if he does, the risk of him being past his prime by the time the team is finally competitive again. Why would Ainge do that? Why would he waste Lauri's best years by playing him with a bunch of scrubs and rookies?

Maybe DA doesn't quite believe in Lauri as much as the fanbase thinks he does. But in that case... trading him would have made even more sense. He would have brought back an absolute king's ransom.

 

[fishonjazz]

You ignored the key word "intentionally" in your early example.

Also Lauri didnt go off in our early start. He went off in late December. We had Sexton (24 PPG in 20-21) and Beasley (20 PPG in 19-20 and 20-21) IN OUR BENCH to start the season.

How is that a tanking team? We had the best bench in the league... probably on paper as well.

Everyone was fooled by the lack of household names... but Danny hoarded good players who werent in key roles hoping to find diamonds in the rough. Thats why he wanted Quickley as well.

I didnt ingnore the word intentionally. I think we intentionally fielded a non competitive team. That team turned into a surprisingly competitive one.

Lets say at the deadline we traded Lauri for Kyle Lowry. Now I bet everyone would say that was a tanking move. What if Lowry all the sudden started playing the best basketball of his career and we started winning even more? Now trading Lauri Markennan for Kyle Lowry would suddenly be a non tanking move i guess.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Sixers tanked for 4 years. Spurs, Rockets and Pistons are not competitive by design this year.

Nope... Spurs just prioritized youth. They are in a rebuild. Same with Rockets and Pistons. Rockets and Spurs waited until the deadline to offload vets... Pistons actually acquired Bogey (a vet).

 

[Elizah Huge]

Last night was the first time I thought to myself we were intentionally tanking.

What other reason would Hardy leave that horrid lineup in until we lost a double digit lead and we’re down 6 in the 4th?

 

[fishonjazz]

I have no idea whether or not we're tanking. The players are definitely trying to win, and I think Hardy is too for the most part. At the same time, I definitely think that the trade the front office made at the deadline was made with hopes that it would lead to more losses the rest of the season.

what else is Locke going to say? Do announcers for the Spurs and Rockets come out and say "Hey guys, we're tanking"?

Well the spurs obviously are not tanking. They just beat our ultra competitive team for one thing but the main way you know they aren't tanking? What team who was trying to lose would have arguably the greatest coach of all time coaching the team? A tanking team would obviously get rid of Pop and hire a dude in his mid 30's who has never been a head coach before.

 

[HermanG]

interesting. how is it possible to win games if you are non-competitive. they are obviously competitive if they are winning games.

Who are they competing with? We are in the play-in, competing at the same level with half of the west including the defending champions.

Not comparable.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Who are they competing with? We are in the play-in, competing at the same level with half of the west including the defending champions.

Not comparable.

seems like you're saying the jazz are more competitive than those teams? maybe even a lot more competitive? is that fair?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Why didn't they just trade Lauri too then? His value has literally never been higher, he's pretty much the most efficient player in the league, and he's hurting the tank by playing HUGE minutes. Doesn't make any sense.

See where my exaggeration is not an exaggeration at all.

And before you say "Of course they won't trade him, they want to build around him"... that sounds and awful lot like the the Jazz have found their franchise guy. You don't tank if that's the case. You start using your treasure chest of assets, quickly, to put good players around the guy you see as the building block.

Tanking doesn't make sense because it separates Lauri's timeline from that of the team's. It increases both the risk of him not resigning AND, even if does, the risk of him being past his prime by the time the team is finally competitive again. Why would Ainge do that? Why would he waste Lauri's best years by playing him with a bunch of scrubs and rookies?

Huh? Having maybe a generational talent next to a young AS or picking 8th this year instead of 15th separates timelines.

Maybe DA doesn't quite believe in Lauri as much as the fanbase thinks he does. But in that case... trading him would have made even more sense. He would have brought back an absolute king's ransom.

Wut?

Again it seems the anti-tankers seem to think unless you win zero games for infinity years its not a tank. There are degrees with this ****. There are articles written showing how this works and teams tanking from late lotto to mid lotto after the AS break. DA is literally following the manual. If Lauri and Walker are too good to let it happen then great... they will have to be amazing to keep us above .500

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Last night was the first time I thought to myself we were intentionally tanking.

What other reason would Hardy leave that horrid lineup in until we lost a double digit lead and we’re down 6 in the 4th?

This

 

[fishonjazz]

Sixers tanked for 4 years. Spurs, Rockets and Pistons are not competitive by design this year.

Sixers definitely didn't field a non competitive team. I saw them win games every year and be close in games they lost. They could have been much worse. Same with the other teams you listed.
I played a total of zero games for those teams. They could have easily signed me for the league minimum and lost even more games.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Who are they competing with? We are in the play-in, competing at the same level with half of the west including the defending champions.

Not comparable.

And yet we made a trade that would hurt our ability to compete... that's weird. We also lost to one of those non-competitive teams at home. Huh...

 

[HermanG]

Nope... Spurs just prioritized youth. They are in a rebuild. Same with Rockets and Pistons. Rockets and Spurs waited until the deadline to offload vets... Pistons actually acquired Bogey (a vet).

They are in a rebuild, but also tanking. You dont finish below 20 wins with a competitive team. They never had a chance... Pops said it himself pretty directly early season after Spurs had won a few games.