2023 NBA Draft Megathread

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

How do we feel in 2023 about prospects who straight up can't shoot? The twins seem to have such amazing physical and athletic traits... but can they overcome their shooting deficiencies?

Ausar will probably shoot well enough to justify the Andre Iguodala comps.
Amen will be a drive-and-kick player (e.g., rookie Ja Morant) until he learns to shoot.
Anthony Black, I'm not sure. Do you pretend he's Ben Simmons and let him run your show?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Concerns I still have about players in the top 10:

• Amen Thompson -- He needs some ability to score outside 15 feet or his defender will drop deep in the paint. This could be make-or-break for him, imo.
• Anthony Black -- I'm not excited about a lead guard with no shooting/scoring gravity. Teams are going to sag way off, or just not guard him at all.
• Brandon Miller -- I still don't think he'll separate from NBA defenders, but can work in an MPJ spot-up shooter role.
• Cam Whitmore -- Needs to play with his head up and pass the ball sometimes.
• Cason Wallace -- If he's going to be the smallest guy on the floor, he needs to be special offensively to be a top-10 pick, imo. Other guys can give you perimeter defense (e.g., Sidy, Rayan, etc.)
• Taylor Hendricks -- I'm not excited about a wing who can't dribble in the top 10. If he can be a bonafide play-finishing big it's less of an issue, but otherwise he's probably a complementary, floor-spacing player. I also don't see much in-between game.

I disagree with Amen. While obviously a jumper would do wonders, with his athleticism and size (which surprised me at the combine) he's going to be a guy who is going to be really dangerous even if the jumper never happens. It could be what make/breaks him being a star, but I think he will be a very good player even without a workable jumper.

Black's lack of jumper worries me more than Amen, so I agree there.

The return of Miller hate. I obviously disagree.

I think Cam will be fine at passing, but hard to see a lot of projectable upside there. Dont think it will be a huge negative though. I see a Jaylen Brown trajectory in that category.

Cason provides a different kind of defense. Not really comparable to what Rupert can do and Sidy isnt a guard defender at all at the NBA level IMO.

Hendricks:. I dont think his measurements hurt him at all in my eyes. If he did put up the rumored numbers I would have thought about buying into the higher level upside hype, but what he put up is in line with what I thought prior to the talk about him being bigger (which I was buying into because w/ his lack of bulk, he looks longer).

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Concerns I still have about players in the top 10:

• Amen Thompson -- He needs some ability to score outside 15 feet or his defender will drop deep in the paint. This could be make-or-break for him, imo.
• Anthony Black -- I'm not excited about a lead guard with no shooting/scoring gravity. Teams are going to sag way off, or just not guard him at all.
• Brandon Miller -- I still don't think he'll separate from NBA defenders, but can work in an MPJ spot-up shooter role.
• Cam Whitmore -- Needs to play with his head up and pass the ball sometimes.
• Cason Wallace -- If he's going to be the smallest guy on the floor, he needs to be special offensively to be a top-10 pick, imo. Other guys can give you perimeter defense (e.g., Sidy, Rayan, etc.)
• Taylor Hendricks -- I'm not excited about a wing who can't dribble in the top 10. If he can be a bonafide play-finishing big it's less of an issue, but otherwise he's probably a complementary, floor-spacing player. I also don't see much in-between game.

all those are legit concerns. there are a couple i could come up with counterpoints on, but that doesn't change the fact they are concerns and i have many of the same ones. i mean, the fact is, guys bust. one of the reasons they bust is the concerns are legit and they aren't able to improve on them - hello, Ben Simmons - a guy who did basically everything else well in addition to excellent physical and athletic attributes, besides shoot.

otoh, many times either the concerns simply aren't legit or they were legit and the player figured it out in spite of them or they improved on them to the point they were no long an issue.

 

[KqWIN]

Cason Wallace is 6'4 for business purposes. He's a got a decent wingspan, good frame/is not skinny , and 100% has that dawg in him. Are we really thinking size a concern for him?

 

[Bawse Dawg]

I think Black would be a pretty great get for the Jazz at this point, He may go way before our pick too, but would be glad to get him.

That means I have a top 10 that I would be fine with, so we should at least get a dude I like a bit.

 

[KqWIN]

How do we feel in 2023 about prospects who straight up can't shoot? The twins seem to have such amazing physical and athletic traits... but can they overcome their shooting deficiencies?

I don't necessarily dislike any of the non-shooting prospects (twins included), but one thing that makes me uncomfortable about the comparisons are that with the NBA examples of where it works.....these guys are mega elite at the other things besides shootings. Like what if what Igoudala was just a good defender and decent passer instead of an elite defender and average passer? Career goes a lot differently if he's a notch below in the areas that he's great at. Same goes for the Zion/Simmons comparisons that are being thrown out there as non-shooting success stories.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Cason Wallace is 6'4 for business purposes. He's a got a decent wingspan, good frame/is not skinny , and 100% has that dawg in him. Are we really thinking size a concern for him?

size is not a concern at all. are we concerned with Jrue's size? hell no. almost the exact same size coming out - Cason is even a tad longer at the same weight.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Is this the best draft in recent memory for defensive upside?

Wemby, Wallace, Walker, Hendricks, Black, and many others.

I don't always follow the draft this closely, but as someone who loves to watch great defense, it has been fun to watch all of the defensive highlights.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

all those are legit concerns. there are a couple i could come up with counterpoints on, but that doesn't change the fact they are concerns and i have many of the same ones. i mean, the fact is, guys bust. one of the reasons they bust is the concerns are legit and they aren't able to improve on them - hello, Ben Simmons - a guy who did basically everything else well in addition to excellent physical and athletic attributes, besides shoot.

otoh, many times either the concerns simply aren't legit or they were legit and the player figured it out in spite of them or they improved on them to the point they were no long an issue.

But SImmons problems arent really shooting. The dude could never shoot and still be an amazing player. What has ruined him is that he let the talk about shooting and his FT issues get to him mentally.

 

[KqWIN]

size is not a concern at all. are we concerned with Jrue's size? hell no. almost the exact same size coming out - Cason is even a tad longer at the same weight.

Yeah...I've heard this come up a few times now and I just don't get it. Maybe because he's constantly being evaluated against Anthony Black? But you could argue that Wallace has a better body type to guard bigger players anyways. If there's a concerns about his body, it would have to be about the medical issues that held him back this year.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The Jazz's roster is so empty right now, I'd be trying to trade all over the draft to get the guys I want. Use a future pick and put some protections on it. For example, the Jazz currently have 4 FRPs in 2027, including their own, the Twolves pick, the Cavs pick and the Lakers pick. Package #16, #28 and a future pick lottery protected if you have to and go get another guy in the lottery.

Jazz have a chance to walk out of this draft with two special players to add to their current timeline. They should absolutely get a guard they feel good about.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Bit flaccid with Cason with our first pick just because his ceiling seems fairly low. I'm thinking our top pick should be a high upside athletic dude.
#16 should either be a ball handler (Cason or Bufkin if available) or a sharpshooter (Hawkins, Dick etc.) and a project player, maybe international, with #28.

God I hate Minnesota for tanking their pick. So close to another lotto spin tonight.

 

[KqWIN]

Is this the best draft in recent memory for defensive upside?

Wemby, Wallace, Walker, Hendricks, Black, and many others.

I don't always follow the draft this closely, but as someone who loves to watch great defense, it has been fun to watch all of the defensive highlights.

Add Coulibaly, Rupert, and the Twins as well. Definitely a good year to get a defensive athlete.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

But SImmons problems arent really shooting. The dude could never shoot and still be an amazing player. What has ruined him is that he let the talk about shooting and his FT issues get to him mentally.

but his ceiling was limited greatly by his lack of shooting and that issue is directly related to his mental issues.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Bit flaccid with Cason with our first pick just because his ceiling seems fairly low. I'm thinking our top pick should be a high upside athletic dude.
#16 should either be a ball handler (Cason or Bufkin if available) or a sharpshooter (Hawkins, Dick etc.) and a project player, maybe international, with #28.

God I hate Minnesota for tanking their pick. So close to another lotto spin tonight.

Only hesitation on Cason is the back injury and if it was an injury or a condition. I've been saying he is a lock to be gone by 16 but Hollinger noted the back in his article today. I think he could be pretty awesome and not sure why people think he has a low ceiling relative to where we are drafting him. If he is a game manager type - thing Monte Morris - on offense and a dawg defender... that is fantastic.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

but his ceiling was limited greatly by his lack of shooting and that issue is directly related to his mental issues.

Sure, but he still could have had a multiple ASG career while never hitting a 3. And if he has mental issues over that, he would have developed them over something else. Shaq could barely hit FT's and it's not like he cared. Same with Giannis throughout his career.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

My philosophy on the draft is that its primary purpose is to add star-level players to the roster on team-friendly contracts. I'm always going to lean towards guys with high upside--e.g., GG Jackson, Bilal Coulibaly, Keyonte George, etc.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Only hesitation on Cason is the back injury and if it was an injury or a condition. I've been saying he is a lock to be gone by 16 but Hollinger noted the back in his article today. I think he could be pretty awesome and not sure why people think he has a low ceiling relative to where we are drafting him. If he is a game manager type - thing Monte Morris - on offense and a dawg defender... that is fantastic.

If we got a Hendricks/Walker/etc. type at #9 I'd gladly trade #16 and #28 for Wallace.

 

[Bodhi]

My philosophy on the draft is that its primary purpose is to add star-level players to the roster on team-friendly contracts. I'm always going to lean towards guys with high upside--e.g., GG Jackson, Bilal Coulibaly, Keyonte George, etc.

I usually feel the same. Best to take a swing for the fences because the payoff is immense if/when you hit.

That said, Cason isnt that for me but I would still very much consider him at 9 depending on how it all pans out. Mostly because if he hits his ceiling, thats the kind of dude that absolutely helps a team go get a chip. The stars win it but dudes like that are necessary IMO. Love the kid.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

My philosophy on the draft is that its primary purpose is to add star-level players to the roster on team-friendly contracts. I'm always going to lean towards guys with high upside--e.g., GG Jackson, Bilal Coulibaly, Keyonte George, etc.

Kind of a strange philosophy because those types of players arent likely to return much value during the team friendly portion of their contracts. With Bilal/GG you might not be getting a whole lot in their first 2 years, then you see some return on investment in 3/4, but have to overpay w/ the idea that progression will continue.

I think your philosophy is just add the most high upside talent and hope it works out in the long run.