Agreed. I think LeBron made a big mistake that will plague the rest of his career. Sometimes when you get what you want, it doesn't always turn out as you expected. Look at the Mailman. He bolted for a year in LA, and probably would've gotten his ring, but then he was injured for the Finals -- first time in his career an injury prevented him from playing in the playoffs -- and it likely cost the Lakers the title. The P-R mistake for LeBron was huge. He may make money in the short run, but a lot of his fans are going to turn on him; he really hurt his image and "his brand" as his business advisors call it.
Building around Williams was a mistake, time to move on
- Thread starter Lord of Turnovers
- Start date
Shaggy
Well-Known Member
Dude! Elder Hayward. oh my gosh!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, no duh, but he is a rookie and we weren't able to build around him over the past few years.
Shaggy
Well-Known Member
That's not what you said though. You said who else are we suppose to build around. Not who else could we have built around. See the difference!
-1 for confusing me!
That's not what you said though. You said who else are we suppose to build around. Not who else could we have built around. See the difference!
-1 for confusing me!
+1 for winning this confrontation. I feel stupid now.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
You missed his point. Those guys basically WERE the PG for those teams. They did most of the offensive responsibilities of the PG and created for their team. Your way to caught up is a specific position. A team needs talent accross the board to win and most of those examples of PGs you used did not have a ton of talent around them. You dismissed Magic as not a PG but he was, what about Isiah? Billups was an elite PG as well.
Hopper
Banned
The guy's just a troll, Greg, and not really worth respondin to, but I've seen legit posters make this same argument, more or less, which was advanced by whazhizname, the Sports Guy, a while back. Often forgotten in these types of "history lessons" is Iverson's MVP year back in 2001, when he led the league in scorin and steals and virtually single-handedly took the 76's to the NBA finals with no "superstar" help.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
In case you havent noticed the Jazz have been drafting in the 20s for decades now. Lebrons, Kobe's, Duncans tend not to last that long....teams also tend not to trade these players and lock them up for multiple years ....hard to believe I know!
So unless you propose the Jazz tank for these high picks - YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT. The year the Jazz were fortunate to have 3 your logic would be to draft Martell Webster, Charlie V, or Ike Diogu over Deron- nice call. Please interview for a GM job at once.
And you missed his point as well. Elite Wings can do everything, handle the ball, score and do it all. That's the point. And they were NOT the PGs for those teams no matter how much you claim they were. They didnt start at PG. Yes, they could handle the ball if needed, but still they are the SG or SF and they had a PG to often bring up the ball or atleast take a load of pressure off of them in terms of ball handling. But they can also handle the ball come crunch time.
Disdvantage with being a PG is that you have to bring the ball up the court every time, face tons of pressure and also generate offense for others, besides scoring for yourself. Magic Johnson was unique. You cannot compare Deron with Magic. Deron isnt 6-9. Isaih maye, thats about it. Billups was on a team that could go to any one of 4 guys on any given night for scoring. Rasheed or Rip or Tayshawn. Plus Billups was'nt treated like the MAX player there.He was just one of the many offensive options they had on a equal opportunity team. He was'nt like the clear standout offense guy there.
Also, We are talking about MAX PGs here.
Who was the last MAX PG to lead his team to the championship in the last 15 years?
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Havind said all of the above as a counter-argument I still think Deron can set some sort of precedent here by being one of the first MAX franchise-level PGs in a long time to win a championship, but he needs to get a STUD at PF or C. If that is'nt possible, it has to be a 2004 Pistons-like team, with atleast 3 guys next to Deron in the starting five, capable of scoring 20 on anygiven night and also capable of defending. That Pistons team had atleast 4 good-to-great individual defenders in the starting five, which is remarkable. And except for en Wallace they could all put the ball in the Hoop. Now that was some genius GM work by Dumars.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
See my post above, unless you start naming the elite wings or centers the Jazz could have got (by FA or draft) you are simply wasting everyones time.