Jazz trade Fonteccio to Pistons for 2024 2nd

[Isaiah 1:13]

I'm a bit surprised by the consensus reaction, I like this trade for us. Not sure I get it from Detroit's perspective.

Simone is a good players and could be a "piece" on a contending team, but we are nowhere near that. DA clearly remains laser-focused on acquiring assets with future value to go out and get the franchise cornerstones when the time is right. Obviously we're trying to win come tipoff time, but it's pretty damn obvious the FO has not been trying to win from a roster construction standpoint the last 24 months. If we move JC, Sexton (we shouldn't), KO, etc. nobody should be expecting "win now" pieces in return.

The 2nd this year from Detroit is valuable. It's essentially a late first, has more near-term value than a heavily protected FRP that won't convey for 2+ years (if ever), and puts us in a great spot to trade into the late first if there's someone we are targeting in that range come draft night.

And I suppose I'm higher on Knox than most - the raw material is still there, he's just been on bad, bad teams. Hardy can clearly get the most out of players with good size, length, and shooting ability. It wasn't long ago that Lauri was also massively wasted.

Firstly, kudos on your post in the Manash thread regarding most likely suspects. I hadn’t seen Tech’s name in print for possible trades till you called it.

Also, and this applies to most the posts I’ve seen referring to Knox and a second, no mention of the draft rights to the Italian (sound familiar?) Gabriele Procida. This kid definitely has potential as a solid 6’8” Wing with a 35” vertical and notable defensive prowess. Second rounder for Portland in 22 but a lot of talk that he could have gone a lot higher. So basically, we got two picks along with Knox.

 

[Hoopsfan]

I looked at Knox's stats this season and they appear comparable to Tech's. He's moved around quite a bit for some reason.

The "moved around quite a bit for some reason" can really be a red flag...
If Ochai takes Fonteccio's place as a starter the Jazz's starting five is losing in size and making defensive switches harder and strong PF/C types will be hard to defend in the paint. If Knox proves to be even some value the deal isn't all that bad (if he is even staying... have to see what still happens before the deadline - probably a lot). Who knows - maybe Procida will be a surprise asset (looks more athletic than Fonteccio tbh, but highlight videos are only that...).

 

[hgb]

Don't like the trade at all, personally. I don't think the return is so bad, but I really like Simone as a player, and I'm not so sure he would've been super expensive to keep as RFA either.

 

[HermanG]

Firstly, kudos on your post in the Manash thread regarding most likely suspects. I hadn’t seen Tech’s name in print for possible trades till you called it.

Also, and this applies to most the posts I’ve seen referring to Knox and a second, no mention of the draft rights to the Italian (sound familiar?) Gabriele Procida. This kid definitely has potential as a solid 6’8” Wing with a 35” vertical and notable defensive prowess. Second rounder for Portland in 22 but a lot of talk that he could have gone a lot higher. So basically, we got two picks along with Knox.

Lately there was lots of Tech related news out there.

But I said this in December before the trade season even properly began when people were discussing trading away Collins:

....
There are other much more likely trade candidates to be discussed, like KO, JC, THT and even Fontecchio (as well as he has played lately, he isnt cornerstone material and could definitely bring in some value).

Like if you compare the prospect of trading Collins with the prospect of trading Fontecchio you can say:

• Neither one is a cornerstone piece, so both are equally possible trade fodder
• Collins is almost 2 full years younger than Fontecchio, so keeping him makes more sense age-wise
• Collins makes 25M per year for this + 2 more years, while Fontecchio makes 3M this year and is RFA next summer, so Tech has MUCH more tradable contract
• Both are on the way of the rookies minutes

I get that people project what they want to see happen, but realistically trading Tech makes more sense. Dont know where Hardy would stand on this.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

The "moved around quite a bit for some reason" can really be a red flag...
If Ochai takes Fonteccio's place as a starter the Jazz's starting five is losing in size and making defensive switches harder and strong PF/C types will be hard to defend in the paint. If Knox proves to be even some value the deal isn't all that bad (if he is even staying... have to see what still happens before the deadline - probably a lot). Who knows - maybe Procida will be a surprise asset (looks more athletic than Fonteccio tbh, but highlight videos are only that...).

I watch a lot of NBA basketball, but Detroit is one of the teams I basically have not watched unless they play the Jazz. Supposedly Knox has been playing decent of late. Detroit is stilm giving up on him like every other team he has played for to date.

I have watched him play for his other teams, and there is good reason he has been moved so much. Lazy/low bbiq defender. Poor closeout defender on 3s (similar to Collins). Can hit open 3s, has good frame and is athletic.
Not a great dribbler to the left. Often has had bad body language.

He is one of those guys that has all the physical tools but never puts it together. I don't thinm Thibs is a good player development coach, and that likely hurt Knox early on. Not optimistic Hardy and his staff can do when so many other teams have been unable to do. Maybe he will surprise us all.

I really like how Simone has played this year. Sad that the reward for it is getting shipped to the armpit of Michigan.

 

[hgb]

Didn't realize Procida had that size, though. Hopefully he can turn into something.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Gabriele Procida. This kid definitely has potential as a solid 6’8” Wing with a 35” vertical and notable defensive prowess.

Also can't shoot at all.

He's probably not an NBA player.

I never knew we had this many people here who bought Kevin Knox stock and never sold it. Also never knew we had this many people who love edited highlight videos from inferior European leagues where Collin Sexton would average 45ppg.

 

[hgb]

Also can't shoot at all.

How would you know at this point? Until this season, he's had better percentages than Simone had at the same age.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

How would you know at this point?

He's shooting 27% from the perimeter in the Euroleague (and on small volume to boot), which is what you shoud be looking at.

The Italian league (where he shot a bit better early on) is an utter joke compared to the NBA and way worse than the Euroleague.

 

[HermanG]

Also can't shoot at all.

He's probably not an NBA player.

I never knew we had this many people here who bought Kevin Knox stock and never sold it. Also never knew we had this many people who love edited highlight videos from inferior European leagues where Collin Sexton would average 45ppg.

Lets take a trip back memory lane about what you said about Simone who you are now crying after.

Btw these are collected from 5 month timeframe last season simply by typing "Fontecchio" into the search and defining they are posted by you. I left out quite a lot so this wouldnt be too long:

The (huge) difference is that Simone doesn't seem to have any of the intangibles that Ingles possessed from the second he first stepped foot on an NBA floor. Joe was a much better player when he came into the league, defensive woes and all. Fontecchio is an energy guy with awkward tweener size who can shoot a bit. He would be playing bigger minutes if he deserved them.

I can't see him lasting in the NBA.

Simone has little margin for error, though. He's 6'8'' and plays a critical position defensively (small forward). So far he hasn't been able to stay with NBA 3's, and obviously he's too small to guard bigs. That leads me to believe he'll always be a bench specialist in the NBA. Maybe playing 15 to 20 minutes tops.

As for the other guys... I'm not sure Fontecchio is a rotation player in the NBA. He'll be 27 this season, so he pretty much is who he is at this point. Not getting any younger or quicker. To me he's a tweener who's too slow to guard 3's and lacks size and athleticism to guard 4's. He's certainly no foundational piece.

Simone will be 27 in a few days. He is what he is. I think he's headed back to Europe once his deal is up. He can probably make more money there and it doesn't make sense for him to spend his basketball prime playing 9mpg in the NBA.

Fontecchio isn't young, at 27 he's older than Markkanen. Realistically, he has 4 or 5 NBA years left, and that's if things go extremely well for him. He might also be out of the league after his current deal. Do we need to "evaluate" him?

We have zero spacing right now, with pathetic non-shooters like Dunn, THT, Kessler, Fontecchio and Toscano-Anderson all playing actual rotation minutes.

The zero spacing + pathetic non-shooter comment was my favourite. That was from Match 7th 2023, so not an early season overreaction but after ASG.

 

[HermanG]

Also two of those messages were sandwiched around this gem from @Handlogten's Heros

He can shoot a bit? Sir he's a ****ing flame thrower. 40% on threes and taking a ton. It is incredibly hard for guys to be effective coming off the bench in spot minutes and shoot from the perimeter like he is.

He's more Max Strus than Joe Ingles. He has some Bogey similarities. Its way to early to judge him.

He's made a few good defensive plays and seems to make solid rotations. He also is surprisingly good on pump fake straight line drives. Tried to mash on some guys and missed a couple early (some missed fouls in there imo). Beasley fills the high volume three point shooter role right now. Moving Vando or KO would open up some minutes for Simone... for instance if Vando was moved and Kessler became the starter... I could see Simone being a decent option to slide into a 20 minute a night starter role.

Like HH actually perfectly desribed what Simone is and what he could be, and also what he turned out to be this year. But even when spoonfed with a near perfect analysis, TU did his thang.

 

[hgb]

He's shooting 27% from the perimeter in the Euroleague (and on small volume to boot), which is what you shoud be looking at.

The Italian league (where he shot a bit better early on) is an utter joke compared to the NBA and way worse than the Euroleague.

You're also looking at a pretty small sample size. He might never amount to anything, but your excellent analysis of Simone from last season that Herman just quoted could also be an indication that maybe jumping to conclusions about players isn't always a great idea.