Conspiracy Theory Corner

[Saint Cy of JFC]

My problem with "it's Utah" is that, before the Jazz went into all-out tank mode, their defense with Collins on the court was the worst in the league by a mile, and their defense with Collins *off* the court was literally top 5.

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Jazz DRTG with Collins on court: 122.7
Jazz DRTG with Collins off court: 111.4

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122.7 would be good for dead last by a mile - 111.4 is top 5.

That's pretty ridiculous.

Small sample size of the Jazz trying weird *** lineups with a guy brand new to the team....

 

[framer]

If we can flip Collins for Ingram, I'm OK with that as long as it isn't too pricy. I think the Kessler-Collins problem is more of a Kessler-Collins-Lauri problem in that if Kessler is playing Center, Lauri and Collins overlap way too much. I think that some of the "good play" from Collins probably came from some Lauri absences and Lauri short minute games. Trying to reproduce what Lauri does with a lesser player is a luxury.

For the time being, the Jazz are a mess at the wing, so I would be OK with bringing in Ingram to see what a functioning wing looks like again after Fontecchio left. I think the West is tough enough that you could absorb some better playing and still have decent draft odds. If the Jazz get too good you either claim victory, or you could safety valve by dumping Kessler for value. Ultimately, though you are going to want to replace what Ingram gives you with Hendricks and Williams who can play Defense., so I would be OK keeping a hard line in his new contract negotiations too.

Basically, if you could get him for a draft pick and Collins I don't see any harm in it.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Interesting take. I think the Clippers want to keep Kawhi and James Harden as the move into their new arena.

I do think there are probably a couple deals being held up by the Lauri situation. There have been murmurs about Ingram. The Lakers still want to make a move or two.

 

[HermanG]

My problem with "it's Utah" is that, before the Jazz went into all-out tank mode, their defense with Collins on the court was the worst in the league by a mile, and their defense with Collins *off* the court was literally top 5.

Utah Jazz Team Info and News | NBA.com

View the Utah Jazz's Official NBA Schedule, Roster & Standings. Watch Utah Jazz's Games with NBA League Pass.

www.nba.com

Jazz DRTG with Collins on court: 122.7
Jazz DRTG with Collins off court: 111.4

Teams Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring advanced information for each team in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

122.7 would be good for dead last by a mile - 111.4 is top 5.

That's pretty ridiculous.

Jazz was bad on defense without Kessler on the court. Blame for that doesnt belong to just 1 guy, but the guy whos statistics got destroyed by that was definitely Collins.

By eyeball test he was horrible against big and/or high quality centers such as AD, but mostly he was meh.

 

[MTS]

Jazz was bad on defense without Kessler on the court. Blame for that doesnt belong to just 1 guy, but the guy whos statistics got destroyed by that was definitely Collins.

By eyeball test he was horrible against big and/or high quality centers such as AD, but mostly he was meh.

Yeah I don't know. I'm a big fan of Kessler obviously, but to attribute the difference mainly to him would almost be like arguing he has a Gobert-esque impact on defense. I think Collins being bad on defense did a lot of carrying in that gap as well.

Which is ironic - Cy thinks I'm just trying to boost Kessler up, but if that was really my intent, I'd be arguing that Collins was an okay defender, because it'd mean Kessler must be absolutely transcendent.

 

[HermanG]

Yeah I don't know. I'm a big fan of Kessler obviously, but to attribute the difference mainly to him would almost be like arguing he has a Gobert-esque impact on defense. I think Collins being bad on defense did a lot of carrying in that gap as well.

Which is ironic - Cy thinks I'm just trying to boost Kessler up, but if that was really my intent, I'd be arguing that Collins was an okay defender, because it'd mean Kessler must be absolutely transcendent.

Defense is a team thing. Being good at it is about fielding a balanced lineup that matches up well. With Collins on the court there was no rim protector and no one who could handle bigger guys in the hole.

Its his fault to an extent (for being a tweener 5 more than a true 4), but not to the extent of -10 points per 100 possessions.

 

[MTS]

Defense is a team thing. Being good at it is about fielding a balanced lineup that matches up well. With Collins on the court there was no rim protector and no one who could handle bigger guys in the hole.

Its his fault to an extent (for being a tweener 5 more than a true 4), but not to the extent of -10 points per 100 possessions.

I think the 10 points per 100 possessions was a combination of Kessler being an elite rim protector who could very effectively cover up for others weaknesses, and Collins at the 5 being a subpar rim-protector who definitely cannot cover up for others.

It's especially crazy because the 3 players Kessler shared the most minutes with were Clarkson, Keyonte, and Sexton.

 

[HermanG]

I think the 10 points per 100 possessions was a combination of Kessler being an elite rim protector who could very effectively cover up for others weaknesses, and Collins at the 5 being a subpar rim-protector who definitely cannot cover up for others.

It's especially crazy because the 3 players Kessler shared the most minutes with were Clarkson, Keyonte, and Sexton.

Even more than just Kessler, it was the imbalance in the Collins lineups that had no rim protection. Combine that with Hardys perimeter defense philosophy which seems to be to allow open shots to anyone but the most elite guys, and its a disaster.

Collins was -2 on that exact same statistic in 2022/23, +0.2 in 2021/22 and -1.7 in 2020/21. So pretty consistently meh.

Its about the balance, or in this case lack of it. But nonetheless that -10 is very misleading in this instance.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yeah I don't know. I'm a big fan of Kessler obviously, but to attribute the difference mainly to him would almost be like arguing he has a Gobert-esque impact on defense. I think Collins being bad on defense did a lot of carrying in that gap as well.

Which is ironic - Cy thinks I'm just trying to boost Kessler up, but if that was really my intent, I'd be arguing that Collins was an okay defender, because it'd mean Kessler must be absolutely transcendent.

I mean I don't think you're an absolute moron, just kind of moronic

 

[MTS]

Even more than just Kessler, it was the imbalance in the Collins lineups that had no rim protection. Combine that with Hardys perimeter defense philosophy which seems to be to allow open shots to anyone but the most elite guys, and its a disaster.

Collins was -2 on that exact same statistic in 2022/23, +0.2 in 2021/22 and -1.7 in 2020/21. So pretty consistently meh.

Its about the balance, or in this case lack of it. But nonetheless that -10 is very misleading in this instance.

Well, in those other 3 years he played the overwhelming majority of his minutes at the 4. And the Hawks were pretty bad defensively even when he was off the court, whereas the Jazz were not (before they went into all-out tank mode).

 

[fishonjazz]

Even more than just Kessler, it was the imbalance in the Collins lineups that had no rim protection.

On the other hand I think that Lauri is probably a better rim protector than sexton, Clarkson or keyonte are. (Kessler was playing the most minutes with the worst rim protectors on the team while Collins was playing with Lauri more than Kessler was)



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[The Midnight]

Tanking is effective, but it's also lame af

Are you above doing something lame to win a Championship?

I’m not.

Spurs aren’t.

They got Wemby from blatant tanking.