Gun Control vs School Shootings in Terms of Child Deaths

[Rubashov]

Ok, so let's just lay it out there. I posted a rant recently about gun control and school shootings and I thought it would be interesting to see where people stand, in our little forum at least.

The question is, AT WHAT COST IS IT WORTH IGNORING GUN VIOLENCE AND ENSURING THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS IS NOT INFRINGED IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM?

Or, what cost is worth maintaining our right to bear arms and keep all guns out there safely out of the hands of the government and firmly in the hands of hobbyist, militarist preppers, mentally ill people, and criminals. The stats show that in republican lead states gun laws tend to get looser after school shootings, and in democrat states they tend to get tighter. But obviously this is a tough nut to crack.

We are also, by far, the worst in the entire world for gun violence and particularly school shootings. The graphs I have seen are ridiculous.

School Shootings by Country 2025

Comprehensive data on school shootings by country through the years, including recent incidents like those in Serbia and Czechia.

worldpopulationreview.com

View attachment 17247

Total gun deaths we are similarly among the worst. In fact the only countries worse than use are due to significant gang and drug-related activies.

Gun Deaths by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

View attachment 17248

So let's just look at child deaths. Firearms are the #1 cause of child mortality in America. How about that?

Child and Teen Firearm Mortality in the U.S. and Peer Countries | KFF

Firearms were responsible for 20 percent of all child and teen deaths in the U.S. for both 2020 and 2021, compared to an average of less than 2 percent in similarly large and wealthy nations. This puts the U.S. far ahead of peer nations in child and teen firearm deaths.

www.kff.org

View attachment 17250


So, what is the cost we are willing to pay for virtually unfettered access to guns for pretty much everyone? Let's put it in terms of children killed per year, how about that? How many child deaths are you willing to accept annually to keep the right to keep and bear arms completely free and clear of any regulation, other than what is on the books right now, which has been proven to be all but completely ineffective?

This is not a place for "yeah, well, we can't do nothing about it anyway" or ******** excuses like that. No, this is simply about what your 2nd amendment right means to you, put in terms of child deaths. It is a more inflammatory and indirect way to look at willingness to accept stricter gun laws around protecting children specifically. If you have ideas how we can do that, please share. Also, I am making this anonymous so you can feel safe in expressing your opinion, but if you want, tell us why you voted how you did.

Couple of quick questions before I vote.

Are they American kids?

Are we talking about poor black and Latino kids or privileged white ones?

 

[fishonjazz]

Couple of quick questions before I vote.

Are they American kids?

Are we talking about poor black and Latino kids or privileged white ones?

Yes
Both/all

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[Rubashov]

I also think another thing that would help and doesn't have anything to do with guns or gun laws would be to change the culture.

Don't allow video games like call of duty and grand theft auto. Don't allow movies like John wick. Dont allow movies that glorify violence.

But we are talking about freedom of speech again so that's a no go.

Basically the freedoms we have (free speech, right to own guns) make it impossible to give us more freedom to not get killed by each other.

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Hey I love shooting Americans online, I like to bait them with a bit of smack talk, "murdered that ************ like a high school kid" is one of my favourites.

 

[Rubashov]

Remember that any kind of security system like that is one step behind the people trying to break it. I did not realized that one had to pay for video games(on a PC, to be clear) until I was 12. My father stole Dish Network for almost a decade(in Canada, no less).

Once a security system is out there, it's only a matter of time before someone breaks it.

Still it would stop kids accessing their parents guns and using them on themselves or others

 

[str8line]

I remember riding in the back seat of a friend's car in high school and I saw a gun sticking out from under the front seat and I picked it up and checked it out. The next week those friends of mine robbed a subway. (Restaurant)

Another time I was at a party and was chilling down in the basement and suddenly a gun was fired and the bullet came down through the ceiling and missed me by about 2 feet. Missed my best friend by inches. (There was a fight that had broke out upstairs in the kitchen and a dude drew his gun and accidentally fired it while pulling it from his pants)

Another time I was walking by myself and a car pulled up next to me and a dude stood up out of the sunroof and pointed a gun at me and said "caught you slippin". They saw how scared I was and just laughed and drove off.

Another time at a keg party there was a fight about to happen and my friend pulled out his gun and aimed at one of the other kids (had a red dot on his forehead from the laser on his gun). Luckily the other kids just ran and no shots were fired.

I knew a kid in Jr high who was shot right in the eyeball by a .22 and lost his eye.

I had friends over once when my parents were gone and we were all playing with guns downstairs. Dry firing them and stuff. One of the guns (a .22 with a scope we used for rabbit hunting) had a bullet in and one of us pulled the trigger. The bullet went through my older brothers window.

Another time when I was in Jr high my buddy took my bike and was riding it past my house and teasing me so I went inside and got my bb gun and have it like 20 pumps and put a spitwad in the barrel and can't out and shot it at him. Didn't realize there was a bb in there and it went into his ribcage. Had to pay his hospital fees so I got a job working for my neighbor cleaning carpets and windows to pay off my debt.

Another time while hunting I got hit with shotgun BB's that had bounced off the water when someone shot at a duck.

Also almost got shot while pheasant hunting.

Those are a few instances that happened all while I was a kid.

Quite frankly it's amazing there are not more kids killed by guns. We are surrounded by guns. They are everywhere.

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Man that's a ton of gun incidents. You were hanging with the wrong crowd. Where did you grow up and go to high school again? Wasn't it Kearns?

 

[Rubashov]

it's hard to fathom the need for any society to have guns so freely available. Apart from the ones carried by police here i've literally only seen one gun up close in my entire life, that was on a cousin's farm growing up.

You definitely need a gun on a farm, especially if you have livestock. Honestly with all our gun laws you can still legally buy some pretty ****ing lethal rifles here, they're just not semi or fully auto. If you like to hunt deer you're going to want something of a decent caliber and they cost plenty and are subject to checks, that's a nice barrier to gun ownership.

 

[Rubashov]

Yes
Both/all

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Oh so we're only killing American kids? Thats easy kill as many as you like, Its a country where people are so stupid they wont even vote to protect their own children and each other from gun violence. Open season!!!

 

[fishonjazz]

Man that's a ton of gun incidents. You were hanging with the wrong crowd. Where did you grow up and go to high school again? Wasn't it Kearns?

Ya Kearns. (Still here now) Which is a bad area for SLC but not very bad area in comparison to any other major metropolis in America. I'm certain that kids growing up in rough areas of other major cities (new York, Houston, LA, Miami, Baltimore, Detroit, Philadelphia, Denver, etc) have seen/been involved in more.

And ya, I did run with the wrong crowd but notice that one of those took place in my own home, one took place in my front yard, and two were hunting accidents.

Fact is that simply having guns around you is dangerous. Even if you live in affluent/safe places.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

Honestly have no idea how you reverse the gun problem in America. I think it's practically impossible outside of severe privacy/freedom intrusions which I would probably be against. Should definitely make buying guns a bit harder than it is now.

As with most things, a better solution is to address the root of the issues, which in this case would be mental health access and improving the material conditions of people's lives.

 

[fishonjazz]

Honestly have no idea how you reverse the gun problem in America. I think it's practically impossible outside of severe privacy/freedom intrusions which I would probably be against. Should definitely make buying guns a bit harder than it is now.

As with most things, a better solution is to address the root of the issues, which in this case would be mental health access and improving the material conditions of people's lives.

Agreed

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[JimLes]

As with most things, a better solution is to address the root of the issues, which in this case would be mental health access and improving the material conditions of people's lives.

That's a cop out, though. Mental health issues and availability of guns are not related. It's not like Canada or the UK have amazing mental health support systems or no wealth gap.

You gotta think that the fact that the US is absolutely awash in guns is a significant factor in much, much higher gun homicide rates.

 

[fishonjazz]

That's a cop out, though. Mental health issues and availability of guns are not related. It's not like Canada or the UK have amazing mental health support systems or no wealth gap.

You gotta think that the fact that the US is absolutely awash in guns is a significant factor in much, much higher gun homicide rates.

For sure. But I don't see any way to get rid of the issue of the United States being awash in guns. It's too late. The Framers of the Constitution ****ed up on that one. Can't really blame them though, they didn't realize what the 2nd amendment would lead to. It was 1791 for goodness sake.

Take a look at a gun from 1791 and the functionality of it and how accurate it was, how rapid sequencial shots could be fired, the size and weight, the distance/range, velocity, bullet size etc. I think if they had the ability to see into the future then they would never have added the 2nd amendment. But they did. Now the situation is ****ed and can't be fixed.

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