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2024-2025 Tank Race

I should probably amend my original statement a bit. It's not that I don't think that tanking can be at least part of a way toward a championship. It's more the overconfidence in the likelihood of reaching a championship because of tanking that I find frustrating.
In that case I think you are seeing what you want to see.
I dont think there is any likelihood of the jazz reaching a championship no matter what we do.
I have yet to see anyone make any claim that tanking has a high chance of bringing the jazz a championship.
 
I agree and hardcore tankers also will be like... "tank this year and get Cooper... then we tank next year and get AJ... then its championships!!! **** so easy". .

"tanking is foolproof".

I dont think this person exists.
 
Tbh, I think this kind of demonstrates my frustration with much of the tanking crowd. You listed all the ways the Jazz could have improved, but they did not even try. I remember those discussions, and so many were adamant against doing anything besides tanking. Those who were the most against doing anything that could improve the roster were the ones who wanted to tank the most. People can only see tanking as a path to get better. I find the tanking discussion extremely annoying because it's often a closed door. It's easy to say, "we'll rebuild and get draft picks and draft great players" without acknowledging the extreme difficulty/luck required in that happening. OTOH, we know the difficulty of building from the margins. Yeah it's hard to hit a home run on a late draft pick, trade, or FA move with more limited options....that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the worse option.

What it really boils down to is this idea that tanking is the only way and that it's necessary. Also, I cannot stand is when pro-tank people where it as a badge of honor that says they are the one's willing to sacrifice and do what's necessary. This adds to this false dichotomy that tanking is the only way. But those same fans who are willing to "sacrifice" the current state likely enjoy the comfort of having no expectations to win and are also unwilling to "sacrifice" any threat of the future to win now. I can't blame anyone for the way they feel about things, if it feels better to suck now with a promise of hope later instead of trying to win more now with a promise of sucking later....so be it. But don't act like it's the only path and any considerations of other routes is because that person just isn't willing to deal with the losing.

And I'm sure there is some annoying stuff coming the other way as well....but just for me personally, I find it always to be frustrating/circular conversation and it's not because people argue that tanking can't work or hasn't ever worked. It's because people argue that only tanking can work.
I always preferred a path where we try to trade for a Luka or a Giannis. Tanking sucks. Hard to trade for a Luka or Giannis though. Much easier to draft them if you are the jazz.
 
And I'll just say, the whole "option" talk is kind of muddied.

Yes, the Jazz definitely need a primary creator, but with Lauri, you dont have to have a strict 2/3 guy option. Lauri is your primary off-ball option and you need a secondary creator to help the #1 creator. Hell, even if you get a #1 option, Lauri still might be your leading scorer if that #1 option is a skilled playmaker.
 
And I'll just say, the whole "option" talk is kind of muddied.

Yes, the Jazz definitely need a primary creator, but with Lauri, you dont have to have a strict 2/3 guy option. Lauri is your primary off-ball option and you need a secondary creator to help the #1 creator. Hell, even if you get a #1 option, Lauri still might be your leading scorer if that #1 option is a skilled playmaker.
It sounds like they are searching for a young JIngles.
 
And I'll just say, the whole "option" talk is kind of muddied.

Yes, the Jazz definitely need a primary creator, but with Lauri, you dont have to have a strict 2/3 guy option. Lauri is your primary off-ball option and you need a secondary creator to help the #1 creator. Hell, even if you get a #1 option, Lauri still might be your leading scorer if that #1 option is a skilled playmaker.

First option, second option stuff never made sense in the first place. Bunch of media jargon that is good for the layman but can't be taken serious in deeper discussion.
 
First option, second option stuff never made sense in the first place. Bunch of media jargon that is good for the layman but can't be taken serious in deeper discussion.
All that matter is can you throw the guy the ball at the end of the game and get a bucket.

-Media guy somewhere (probably)
 
Tbh, I think this kind of demonstrates my frustration with much of the tanking crowd. You listed all the ways the Jazz could have improved, but they did not even try. I remember those discussions, and so many were adamant against doing anything besides tanking. Those who were the most against doing anything that could improve the roster were the ones who wanted to tank the most. People can only see tanking as a path to get better. I find the tanking discussion extremely annoying because it's often a closed door. It's easy to say, "we'll rebuild and get draft picks and draft great players" without acknowledging the extreme difficulty/luck required in that happening. OTOH, we know the difficulty of building from the margins. Yeah it's hard to hit a home run on a late draft pick, trade, or FA move with more limited options....that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the worse option.

What it really boils down to is this idea that tanking is the only way and that it's necessary. Also, I cannot stand is when pro-tank people where it as a badge of honor that says they are the one's willing to sacrifice and do what's necessary. This adds to this false dichotomy that tanking is the only way. But those same fans who are willing to "sacrifice" the current state likely enjoy the comfort of having no expectations to win and are also unwilling to "sacrifice" any threat of the future to win now. I can't blame anyone for the way they feel about things, if it feels better to suck now with a promise of hope later instead of trying to win more now with a promise of sucking later....so be it. But don't act like it's the only path and any considerations of other routes is because that person just isn't willing to deal with the losing.

And I'm sure there is some annoying stuff coming the other way as well....but just for me personally, I find it always to be frustrating/circular conversation and it's not because people argue that tanking can't work or hasn't ever worked. It's because people argue that only tanking can work.
Yeah... I think there are a lot of these loud people out there but I think there are other that are tank appreciators or tank supporters that see it more reasonably. DL did a lot of things really well... he also fell short in a lot of ways (who knows how much was him and how much was his bosses tho).

The good thing with our situation is IF we find the guy with a high pick or otherwise... that the cupboards are so full that we can buy the other pieces needed or have many chance to find them. But I agree with the sentiment of your post. The reason I lost my damn mind when we took Udoka was one of those picks had to hit in a big-ish way and we made the dumbest bet possible. We blew one of the best low probability opportunities we had on a 3rd string center (I knew we'd bring a vet in and oh my did we ever). Not saying we win the title if we go with Mcdaniels or Bane but we have a lot more to work with at that point.
 
This next week or so is really crucial for the tank and Ainge holding onto Collin Sexton hoping he can squeeze out another second round pick or something is close to madness.

Big reason why I've been saying I would trade him for expiring. He's not helping the franchise, there's no point of having him here for the next two seasons. "Winning the trade" is not more important than the tank.
 
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