Jackpotting Around Podcast: Episode 37 - Keandre Ashley of Hoop Intellect

[Elizah Huge]

Why must you put words in my mouth? I never said it wasn’t good or worth anything. I said I find it strange that he is the only player whose conference seems to matter despite there being several other players in that conference and players who played tougher schedules.

It’s fine if you think the tough competition matters. But it should also matter for those playing the same or better competition.

I also just have a different perspective about efficiency. Efficiency is not just how you shoot relative to the shots you take. His overall efficiency was not bad, but not amazing either. It points to one of the biggest concerns I have with him which is the very tough shot diet. Elite shooting on a tough shot diet doesn’t necessarily produce great efficiency.

I think it’s relative to the Tre vs Kon argument. I’d do the same thing if someone wanted to bring up Kon vs VJ.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

HH is going hard at Tre though he’s very passionate.

This part is wildly inaccurate… and it’s literally the opposite.

 

[KqWIN]

I think it’s relative to the Tre vs Kon argument. I’d do the same thing if someone wanted to bring up Kon vs VJ.

Tre is the only player where it gets brought up over and over in arguments. Even in arguments against other SEC players I see it brought up why he should be the only one who gets credit for playing against a hard schedule.

 

[HermanG]

Why must you put words in my mouth? I never said it wasn’t good or worth anything. I said I find it strange that he is the only player whose conference seems to matter despite there being several other players in that conference and players who played tougher schedules.

It’s fine if you think the tough competition matters. But it should also matter for those playing the same or better competition.

I also just have a different perspective about efficiency. Efficiency is not just how you shoot relative to the shots you take. His overall efficiency was not bad, but not amazing either. It points to one of the biggest concerns I have with him which is the very tough shot diet. Elite shooting on a tough shot diet doesn’t necessarily produce great efficiency.

Isnt a tough shot diet sort of what one should expect from a primary option scorer who carries bulk of his offense against good competition?

 

[fishonjazz]

Do we care that Baylor had a tougher schedule than Texas? Is that worth mentioning every time there’s a slight criticism of VJ? Or is that something only reserved for Tre? Nobody does this for other SEC guys even lol.

I think you should bring up Baylor's tough schedule when VJ is criticized.

Also think it's a good idea to bring up that Kon played on and contributed to one of the best college basketball teams.

I'm all for pumping up dudes we might draft and bringing up reasons for optimism.

Probably hard to find a post from me being very critical of VJ or Kon or Kas even if they are dudes lower on my list of guys I want.

 

[KqWIN]

Isnt a tough shot diet sort of what one should expect from a primary option scorer who carries bulk of his offense against good competition?

Not necessarily and definitely not this tough. Again, Tre is not the only one in this situation.

 

[fishonjazz]

You have like 34 games from an 18 year old. That type of sample is useful for telling you what a player CAN do rather than what they absolutely CANNOT do. His handle is OK, he can get above the rim pretty easily. You can pull out individual plays from the year where he does exactly what you want him to do in driving to the rim.

Honestly, I think his step back and side to side shifts and shooting off the bounce look pretty damn elite. It is easy to trust them in his early career if they cannot be stopped. There is no physical limitation that would keep him from getting to the rim other than reps as far as I can see. I think I would rather he put his immediate work into defense though if the Jazz draft him.

One nice thing is that if he truly is an elite shooter at the NBA level but doesn't get to the rim or line much then we have evidence of guys like that being Hall of famers.

Even a guy like buddy hield, which would be a disappointment for most of us with this pick, averaged 20.7 ppg on 46%/43%/89% shooting splits in his 3rd season in the league and will probably end up playing about 15 years or so.

Elite shooting can go really far in the NBA even if there isn't a ton of supplemental skills with it. Klay, ray, Reggie come to mind. Hell Steph's elite shooting is like 80% of why he is one of the greatest players in the history of the league.

If we draft Kon I will look to his elite shooting as my reason for optimism even if he lacks some other things.

I'm a sucker for elite shooters.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You have like 34 games from an 18 year old. That type of sample is useful for telling you what a player CAN do rather than what they absolutely CANNOT do. His handle is OK, he can get above the rim pretty easily. You can pull out individual plays from the year where he does exactly what you want him to do in driving to the rim.

Honestly, I think his step back and side to side shifts and shooting off the bounce look pretty damn elite. It is easy to trust them in his early career if they cannot be stopped. There is no physical limitation that would keep him from getting to the rim other than reps as far as I can see. I think I would rather he put his immediate work into defense though if the Jazz draft him.

Look all we have is all we have lol. But what we have over his HS and college career is he didn't do it enough or well. I have everyone telling me the stuff Kon does at the rim well... won't work. I am not saying he can't get better... I am saying be consistent. If Kon can figure out a way to make it work by using his two footed stuff and strength to get to the rim and finish better than Tre at this point (which is undeniable based on what we have) then maybe the athletic testing is a little overrated compared to... IDK playing actual basketball.

The case for Tre (which I have made consistently on X and other places) is the off the dribble shooting. He is clearly better at that then Kon. Does Kon improve in that area? Almost surely... just like Tre will improve at his rim finishing (hopefully).

They are both very good prospects. I'm happy to have either. I've talked about both of their strengths and weaknesses based on what they have showed. The draft can be random... lets see who improves on what going forward.

 

[fishonjazz]

Tre is the only player where it gets brought up over and over in arguments. Even in arguments against other SEC players I see it brought up why he should be the only one who gets credit for playing against a hard schedule.

You seem a bit hung up on this. I have barely noticed it lol.

 

[KqWIN]

Look all we have is all we have lol. But what we have over his HS and college career is he didn't do it enough or well. I have everyone telling me the stuff Kon does at the rim well... won't work. I am not saying he can't get better... I am saying be consistent. If Kon can figure out a way to make it work by using his two footed stuff and strength to get to the rim and finish better than Tre at this point (which is undeniable based on what we have) then maybe the athletic testing is a little overrated compared to... IDK playing actual basketball.

The case for Tre (which I have made consistently on X and other places) is the off the dribble shooting. He is clearly better at that then Kon. Does Kon improve in that area? Almost surely... just like Tre will improve at his rim finishing (hopefully).

They are both very good prospects. I'm happy to have either. I've talked about both of their strengths and weaknesses based on what they have showed. The draft can be random... lets see who improves on what going forward.

The simple argument against the whole rim thing would be demonstrating how/when it has happened. If guys do get to the rim and FT line more in the NBA, it should be easy to point to a bunch of examples.

 

[Elizah Huge]

This part is wildly inaccurate… and it’s literally the opposite.

You literally just posted this:

The case for Tre (which I have made consistently on X and other places) is the off the dribble shooting. He is clearly better at that then Kon. Does Kon improve in that area? Almost surely... just like Tre will improve at his rim finishing (hopefully).

Yeah, Kon will SURELY improve and Tre will HOPEFULLY improve.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The simple argument against the whole rim thing would be demonstrating how/when it has happened. If guys do get to the rim and FT line more in the NBA, it should be easy to point to a bunch of examples.

My belief is that its likely easier for a guy who shoots the piss out of the ball to figure out off the dribble shooting than it is for a guy who doesn't get to the rim and struggles to finish to get better at that. I don't think either are impossible of course. I think both Kon and Tre have similar ceilings and the winner of this great debate will be the guy that actually does hit his ceiling (if either do).

My issue the whole times is simply folks dismissing Kon as not even in the conversation... its 100% a conversation... sorry.