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Hard Willy, please give the Keyonte, Ace, Taylor, Lauri, Kessler starting lineup a chance and a long leash.

KqWIN said:
It would be fun to see Flip with the starters. He can shoulder a lot of the playmaking burden by playing at the elbows with his dribble handoff game. Just gives us another option in the half court besides Key.

We saw John Collins thrive in this playmaking 4 role and I'd say Flip is even more talented as a playmaker from that spot.
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so you'd probably go flip over hendricks in that scenario?

there is a part of me that wants hendricks to start at all costs, but in terms of balancing lineups, not only would flip being with that starting group be helpful in terms of playmaking, but it replace a horrendous defender in flip with a good defender in hendricks in a lineup that is already extremely defense deficient.
 
fishonjazz said:
I disagree that 7-11 is inefficient on offense or that 9 assists and zero turnovers indicates bad decision making.
Pretty much every starter will play little defense btw.
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Are you using one game as the determining factor? Really? Do you disagree with my assessment as Key as not only a pro but even at Baylor?
 
seattlejazzfan said:
so you'd probably go flip over hendricks in that scenario?

there is a part of me that wants hendricks to start at all costs, but in terms of balancing lineups, not only would flip being with that starting group be helpful in terms of playmaking, but it replace a horrendous defender in flip with a good defender in hendricks in a lineup that is already extremely defense deficient.
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I see what you're saying, but I view it from a different perspective. I want players to be in a role where they can succeed and get the right opportunities which is not necessarily trying to make the most competitive starting lineup with the fewest holes.

Besides, this defensive issue is zero sum. Flip is going to be a defensive liability no matter what lineup he plays in. It doesn't mater much at all to me if you're taking that defensive hit in the bench or the starters. But the offensive roles and how they fit together change dramatically.

You could even make the argument that because Flip is a liability, he should play more minutes with our best defender (Kessler).
 
KqWIN said:
I see what you're saying, but I view it from a different perspective. I want players to be in a role where they can succeed and get the right opportunities which is not necessarily trying to make the most competitive starting lineup with the fewest holes.

Besides, this defensive issue is zero sum. Flip is going to be a defensive liability no matter what lineup he plays in. It doesn't mater much at all to me if you're taking that defensive hit in the bench or the starters. But the offensive roles and how they fit together change dramatically.

You could even make the argument that because Flip is a liability, he should play more minutes with our best defender (Kessler).
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yeah that's what i'm saying when i suggest that having flip in the starting lineup could make sense. but i was mostly trying to clarify what you'd do.
 
gomretat said:
Are you using one game as the determining factor? Really? Do you disagree with my assessment as Key as not only a pro but even at Baylor?
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Im using this season to discuss this season, yes
 
I'd love to see this lineup at times for sure. Overall I come down in the KqWIN camp of wanting to spread out playmakers and finishers a bit. To me, that either means bumping Collier or Flip into the starting lineup. Probably Collier, but then we go from oversized backcourt to undersized backcourt with Keyonte at the 2.

EDIT: Wanted to add that the Houston game did give me some hope that the Jazz can run efficient plays for Ace, even without Collier out there. Honestly--and shockingly to me--Nurkic seemed important to making that work last night.
 
You are doing it wrong. Hard Willy's job is not winning games - his job is to lose as many games as possible. The solution to it (besides sitting good players with minor nicks as long as possible) is to give bad players huge undeserved minutes and to manufacture bad lineups. Think Cody, Svi, WCJ, Collier with non-shooters etc.

Given that Lauri, Ace and Kessler have to be among the starters Hardy does not have much to work with but I am sure the coach is already strategizing how he can mess up the spacing, passing and defense.
 
I think Colliers ability to get in to the paint and create is more important than Keyontes improvements.

I start Collier. I also like his potential to be a two way player. Collier next to Kessler makes more sense given the drive and lob threat.

I expect Collier and Key start. But for me, I would be more about Collier, Ace, Lauri, Taylor, and Kessler. That gives rim pressure, lob threat, and 3 lanky shooters two of which can score at all 3 levels around the perimeter.

If Key has made major improvements then he, Brice, and Flip should be able to score the crapshiznit out of the ball off the bench without worrying about defense.
 
If a team is trying to win, defense is the first priority for me. Flip shouldn't see the outside of the Stars practice facility before he learns to defend. It looks like Keyonte is moving in that direction. It's the reason that Sensabaugh is sixth man at best. They are all good athletes, they should be able to defend, and if they don't, i just don't care at all about them. Next comes shooting. Looking at you Collier.
 
The lineup here has one problem and that is it puts too much of ball-handling and playmaking on Key who based on his NBA history isnt gonna be effective and good if he has to do that in super high volumes.

For that reason I think TH may be the odd man out of that group and Collier, Flip or Brice (hopefully not Svi) will step in and take his place in the starting 5.

I do think that @fishonjazz lineup will get serious burn this season, but its likely not gonna be starting lineup early on unless Hardy really trusts Ace as a legit secondary ball-handler.
 
For the record I'm still a fan of Key and believe he will prove he is a legit NBA player this season... but that NBA player is more like FVV who is fine as you starting combo 1-guard but isnt really owning or operating the offense every night at high volumes like Brunson/Dame/Luka types.
 
HermanG said:
The lineup here has one problem and that is it puts too much of ball-handling and playmaking on Key who based on his NBA history isnt gonna be effective and good if he has to do that in super high volumes.

For that reason I think TH may be the odd man out of that group and Collier, Flip or Brice (hopefully not Svi) will step in and take his place in the starting 5.

I do think that @fishonjazz lineup will get serious burn this season, but its likely not gonna be starting lineup early on unless Hardy really trusts Ace as a legit secondary ball-handler.
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Ya the lack of ball handlers in my lineup is pretty glaring and for that reason I think it won't work.


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Saint Cy of JFC said:
You start Key 1000000% unless Collier suddenly is able to hit open 3a above 33%
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Ya I think Hendricks is the one you bring off the bench out of this lineup sadly.

I would still start with this lineup and see how it works and see if keyonte can handle such a large amount of ball handling and see of maybe Ace can do more than expected with the ball and then make changes (Kyle Anderson in place of Taylor/Collier at point and key at sg etc) if necessary.
 
You try the various combos in preseason- but honestly I would be shocked if coach doesn’t include Key regardless of what’s happens on the court. He has consistently believed in him above and beyond what he has shown in games and singled him out for more praise and less criticism vs his other players.

The only question for me is whether he places him at PG or SG. Right now with the lack of noise re Colier improving his 3, I’d say it’s Key at PG and then you have to decide whether you’re doing Brice/Ace or Ace/Taylor- D focus or O focus basically.

I’d favor Taylor right now since his O is better than Brice’s D.
 
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