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Hardy isn’t the guy for this job. It isn’t working

Saint Cy of JFC said:
Hard to make defensive rotations when you are playing Love and Nurkic, two guys who cant rotate, nearly 48 MPG.

There's just not defensive talent on the roster to judge Hardy. We are going to have to replace Nurk/Love/Brice minutes with guys who can actually play next year and that will greatly improve the defense.

I mean, there's a reason Nurkic has been bounced around the league and couldn't stick on teams that badly needed center rotation minutes.
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Would the defense be better if harkless played?
 
Will seems to be doing fine. The personnel decisions are coming from the front office. Adding some quality, supportive vets creates the right environment for the young guys to start playing a leading role without being completely on their own. Keyonte and Flip are developing pretty well. Walt has had a few good games too. Walker looked like he took a step before his injury. I think that's the main story this season, along with positioning ourselves for the draft lottery.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Of course, but Harkless is probably a tank buster so they dont want to play him at this point. I'm guessing (hoping) he will get more minutes when the vets start sitting and they can balance out Harkless's positive play with Cody's negative play.
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We can't have Harkless out there flipping games like he did in Boston. Bring him in next year.
 
Tanktastic said:
Hardy isn't a good coach. His defensive scheme, whatever the hell it's supposed to be, hasn't made an appearance yet and it's year 4.

But "just play all the young guys all the minutes and *develop* them and they'll be great" is just fantasy.

Young guys on teams like OKC end up being the best version of themselves, because they can learn from great players, they're in a good situation, the expectations are realistic and they have to be at they're best in practice and in games to get any minutes.

Young guys on teams like the Jazz end up being crap, because they have none of the above. Not that the material has been given has been all that great to start with it. No-one's developing Cody into anything useful at the NBA level.
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I mean, that is what OKC did though in rebuilding their team. In 2022, not a single player over 24 years old played over 1300 minutes (that's 15 mpg average over 82 games). They played all their young guys and let them figure it out.

Also, all of these critiques are Hardy are also resting on the fact that the Jazz are sitting in the one place they can't sit. Not in the playoffs and not keeping their draft pick. Something has to change. I wouldn't be critical of playing veterans if the Jazz were going to make the playoffs, or if the veterans were helping them tank into a top 5 pick again.
 
He's a great coach. I wonder if some of the choices he makes on playing time are correct though. I think there may be some personality clashes that he could work on. He's also young and developing. Overall its tough to argue he isn't a good coach.

As it relates to being the guy for this job... I think he's very competitive. I think this tanking thing has not been the best for him. I am not sure its great for any good coach tbh. I don't think we can fully judge him based on his last three years but I do have some confidence that the defense will be better once we are out of tank mode.
 
I've seen some discussions on draft twitter about the extent to which a team can affect development and it convinced me that it's much less than we seem to think. What really matters is 1) identifying talent and 2) acquiring talent. I used to believe that a player's situation was crucial to a players development....you know the idea that Kawhi would not become Kawhi unless he went to the Spurs. While I still believe some truth to that, I've started to side with the idea that talent is talent and that will shine through regardless. The special sauce isn't development, it's identifying and acquiring the talent. There are exceptions, of course, but this true in most cases.

So wherever you lie on the "play the young guys" spectrum, I think the effect is fairly muted. If there are gains from more opportunity, it's probably not a ton. And same goes for the possible negative effects. The real development plan for a player like Cody is to just draft someone good like Matas instead. Our current level has less to do with Hardy's development skill/minutes choices and more to do with the the quality of prospect we're giving him.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I just want him to start getting NBA reps with the ball to see what he can do.
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Honestly he deserves it... so for a guy who hasn't had a real NBA contract I think I'm cool with him showing he belongs and making a living.
 
KqWIN said:
I've seen some discussions on draft twitter about the extent to which a team can affect development and it convinced me that it's much less than we seem to think. What really matters is 1) identifying talent and 2) acquiring talent. I used to believe that a player's situation was crucial to a players development....you know the idea that Kawhi would not become Kawhi unless he went to the Spurs. While I still believe some truth to that, I've started to side with the idea that talent is talent and that will shine through regardless. The special sauce isn't development, it's identifying and acquiring the talent. There are exceptions, of course, but this true in most cases.

So wherever you lie on the "play the young guys" spectrum, I think the effect is fairly muted. If there are gains from more opportunity, it's probably not a ton. And same goes for the possible negative effects. The real development plan for a player like Cody is to just draft someone good like Matas instead. Our current level has less to do with Hardy's development skill/minutes choices and more to do with the the quality of prospect we're giving him.
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I think there is a lot of truth here but also do think NBA reps are important to sifting the wheat from the chaff. Everyone says they see these guys in practice... everyone also says practices are different than games. So I just think they need real NBA minutes and a role.

Like our guy Keon Ellis is getting like 5 minutes a night. He already has proved to be an NBA player. His coach is motivated to win... yet he sits. Like coaches aren't perfect at it. Folks have been shocked with NAW's rise but it started here. Yet his role was inconsistent, and we were playing guys like THT more than him.

So I think the NBA minutes are necessary to see what if any talent is really there. Either way it has tremendous value for us to find out. With a guy like Cody its pretty clear but giving the FO a bigger sample proves it out.

IDK its an imperfect science obviously.
 
Roy_McAvoy said:
I mean, that is what OKC did though in rebuilding their team. In 2022, not a single player over 24 years old played over 1300 minutes (that's 15 mpg average over 82 games). They played all their young guys and let them figure it out.
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Except those guys didn't figure it out. Bunch of them are playing in Serbia, China, in the G etc.

Of course SGA had a stress-free runway to become an MVP level superstar without much pressure.

They hit on a risky pick in Chet (longevity TBD) and made nice acquisitions (Caruso, Hart) and didn't flinch about making someone an extreme role player (Dort).

If the Jazz had anyone who had a chance to be a future Jalen Williams and Hardy was sitting them, I'd be angry. But there isn't one. There's only the Pokusevskis and Bazleys.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think there is a lot of truth here but also do think NBA reps are important to sifting the wheat from the chaff. Everyone says they see these guys in practice... everyone also says practices are different than games. So I just think they need real NBA minutes and a role.

Like our guy Keon Ellis is getting like 5 minutes a night. He already has proved to be an NBA player. His coach is motivated to win... yet he sits. Like coaches aren't perfect at it. Folks have been shocked with NAW's rise but it started here. Yet his role was inconsistent, and we were playing guys like THT more than him.

So I think the NBA minutes are necessary to see what if any talent is really there. Either way it has tremendous value for us to find out. With a guy like Cody its pretty clear but giving the FO a bigger sample proves it out.

IDK its an imperfect science obviously.
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I think you're right about minutes being needed to reveal what you have. I'd just say that fits into the talent identification piece and not the player development piece. A good example would be someone like NAW. Do I really think that NAW suddenly developed once he went to another team? Not really, he was probably good/on his way to being good. Our failure wasn't bad development, it's bad talent recognition and the more we played him the more obvious it would have been that he had some talent. It is an art not science and it’s the art of recognizing that a NAW or Ellis is actually good.

Opportunity, accountability, winning culture, losing culture...I am not saying these things don't have an impact. But what makes a good home grown team is finding the good players. And like you said, sometimes you need to give guys PT to determine if they're good or not. More minutes does not necessarily mean more development, but I think it does provide a larger sample size that results in a more informed opinion.

Sometimes the minutes will reveal you have a Poku, sometimes it will reveal you have a Dort or Aaron Wiggins.
 
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KqWIN said:
I've seen some discussions on draft twitter about the extent to which a team can affect development and it convinced me that it's much less than we seem to think. What really matters is 1) identifying talent and 2) acquiring talent. I used to believe that a player's situation was crucial to a players development....you know the idea that Kawhi would not become Kawhi unless he went to the Spurs. While I still believe some truth to that, I've started to side with the idea that talent is talent and that will shine through regardless. The special sauce isn't development, it's identifying and acquiring the talent. There are exceptions, of course, but this true in most cases.

So wherever you lie on the "play the young guys" spectrum, I think the effect is fairly muted. If there are gains from more opportunity, it's probably not a ton. And same goes for the possible negative effects. The real development plan for a player like Cody is to just draft someone good like Matas instead. Our current level has less to do with Hardy's development skill/minutes choices and more to do with the the quality of prospect we're giving him.
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Ya I basically made the point the other day that good players are good and players that suck, suck.
Winning culture or losing culture or whatever.
 
FalseFlagg K said:
sorry but why doesn't this site have an automatic account deletion function for when someone posts absolutely staggering ********
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I can be persuaded. What’s the argument for defending Hardy?

I see a coach that has the Jazz in purgatory. A coach that doesn’t make the playoffs ever but also isn’t bad enough to make them one day be good.

I see someone that plays head games with players, destroys young player’s confidence, and plays mediocre vets who haven’t done anything way too many minutes.

He has the Jazz sitting in the one area of the standings they can’t be this year and we’re 30% of the way through the season.

Svi has played 60 more minutes this season than Ace & nearly double the minutes of Sensabaugh/clayton/collier.

Nurkic has played more minutes than Flip & more than double the minutes of Hendricks.

Given the dynamic of the Jazz those facts are crazy.

Then last night in a game the Jazz were down more than 30 points the entire game, he gives Svi 33 minutes & senabaugh/collier only played 6. There’s no excuse for that to ever happen.

Why do Svi and Nurkic get a free pass for horrible play and unlimited minutes? It serves no purpose. It’s moronic and it’s only going to leave the Jazz where they are right now, 4 years into this mess.
 
Roy_McAvoy said:
I can be persuaded. What’s the argument for defending Hardy?

I see a coach that has the Jazz in purgatory. A coach that doesn’t make the playoffs ever but also isn’t bad enough to make them one day be good.

I see someone that plays head games with players, destroys young player’s confidence, and plays mediocre vets who haven’t done anything way too many minutes.

He has the Jazz sitting in the one area of the standings they can’t be this year and we’re 30% of the way through the season.

Svi has played 60 more minutes this season than Ace & nearly double the minutes of Sensabaugh/clayton/collier.

Nurkic has played more minutes than Flip & more than double the minutes of Hendricks.

Given the dynamic of the Jazz those facts are crazy.

Then last night in a game the Jazz were down more than 30 points the entire game, he gives Svi 33 minutes & senabaugh/collier only played 6. There’s no excuse for that to ever happen.

Why do Svi and Nurkic get a free pass for horrible play and unlimited minutes? It serves no purpose. It’s moronic and it’s only going to leave the Jazz where they are right now, 4 years into this mess.
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I believe Brice and Collier have reserved rooms in Hardy's prestigious kennel club.
 
Roy_McAvoy said:
I can be persuaded. What’s the argument for defending Hardy?

I see a coach that has the Jazz in purgatory. A coach that doesn’t make the playoffs ever but also isn’t bad enough to make them one day be good.

I see someone that plays head games with players. Destroys young player’s confidence, and plays mediocre vets who haven’t done anything way too many minutes.

He has the Jazz sitting in the one area of the standings they can’t be this year.

Svi has played 60 more minutes this season than Ace & nearly double the minutes of Sensabaugh/clayton/collier.

Nurkic has played more minutes than Flip & more than double the minutes of Hendricks.

Given the dynamic of the Jazz those facts are crazy.

Then last night in a game the Jazz were down more than 30 points the entire game, he gives Svi 33 minutes & senabaugh/collier only played 6. There’s no excuse for that to ever happen.

Why do Svi and Nurkic get a free pass for horrible play and unlimited minutes? It serves no purpose. It’s moronic and it’s only going to leave the Jazz where they are right now, 4 years into this mess.
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I think you’re conflating FO failures with coaching failures. The reason the Jazz are in “purgatory” is a result of FO decisions. Tanking comes from the FO, and it looks like there is no directive for him to tank or play certain players. You can’t blame him for playing the vets and trying to win in the meantime. He has shown to be a very willing participant in whatever plan the FO has, so it’s not like he’s rebelling or anything.

At this point, I’m not sure how good of a coach Hardy is. But I don’t think this situation looks much different with any other coach.
 
HermanG said:
Give me a break. His system is 100% obvious and he even tells it to media. Play well and do the right things, and you get minutes. Its not rocket science.

He even micromanages the youth minutes within games based on how the kids play. He gave WCJ 29 minutes and TH 24 minutes last game, when they both were feeling it. They werent "entitled to those minutes" based on history... but they deserved them just based on playing well in that particular game. There are tons of coaches who wont do that, but instead have glued their rotations into the back of their eyelids and will not change them even between games, no matter how the kids perform.

Futhermore, Key was NOT held accountable year 1, and was allowed to play through his mistakes including some dumb temper tantrums. That resulted in almost ZERO progress for year 2. Then year 2 Hardy made him come off the bench and reduced his green light and role, sending him a warning in the process... and that resulted in significant progress coming into this year.

Every single coach in the NBA plays head games to some extent, but thats part of developing actual professional atheles instead of entitled divas who are more interested in their image/bags than they are about actually competing in this sport.
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Well, your whole argument falls apart when you just check at Svi's game log. The guy logged 0-5 for for a dub in 22min with a game score of -2.9 (not sure how anyone can get a minus gamescore) then immediately got rewarded with 30min the next game just two days later. Even just three days ago, shot 1-8 for 3pts in 18min then immediately gets rewarded with 33min the next game, as he was absolutely dynamic in these mins, providing 6pts and 3TO. “Entitled to the minutes”. No?

www.basketball-reference.com

Svi Mykhailiuk 2025-26 Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com

Get Svi Mykhailiuk's 2025-26 game by game stats along with wins and losses stats on Basketball-Reference.com
www.basketball-reference.com www.basketball-reference.com

And here's a look at Hardy's anti-svi project that is Brice Sensabaugh:

www.basketball-reference.com

Brice Sensabaugh 2025-26 Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com

Get Brice Sensabaugh's 2025-26 game by game stats along with wins and losses stats on Basketball-Reference.com
www.basketball-reference.com www.basketball-reference.com

Averaged 17ppg the first two games on 13/24 shooting then immediately gets rewarded with 11min the next game. Complete fell out of rotation by game 7 & 8. Truly master level of management.

I'm sorry but when has “micromanaging” become a good thing, especially for young players who needs confidence and complete trust from his coach for making those young silly mistakes?

He gave TH and WCJ mins last game not because they were feeling it, but because we were blown out of our own building and Hardy was simply giving his "scrubs" some extra burns so he can preserve his precious Svi/Nurk/Love for the next game.

Also kinda funny how you use Key as an example towards the end and pretend that he's some kind of success story and ready to compete on the biggest stage because I just don't see him chucking up 16 shots a game for any team that wants to compete for the playoffs. How much are you willing to overpay to keep him?
 
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