GOP loses in Maine

[babe]

There are a lot fewer republicans in Maine today than there were a few weeks ago. A lot of people showed up at the nationally-significant "Straw Poll" and voted for their guy, but the GOP party is standing on it's privilege that it is not actually a democratic institution, and that people's votes are actually insignificant.

Like the Democratic Party, the GOP preens itself on its legal standing as a private institution which can and will select its own candidates.

In both Iowa and Maine, the party bosses had their thumbs on the ballot count doing their best to hand Romney a needed boost.

https://www.prisonplanet.com/maine-...on-were-ignored-omitted-from-final-count.html

Romney continues to drive the voters back into their homes, depressing them with hopelessness and apathy and the certain knowledge that their wishes will just go on being ignored, disregarded, and even mocked. But Romney's failure to repudiate association with fraudulent practices renders him absolutely unworthy of the Presidential officel. He is a disgrace to his Mormon religion, and to his family. And to everyone who hopes for something better than the same old song and dance in our national politics.

 

[TroutBum]

Good post except for the Mormon whining. Leave the religion out of it -- NOBODY CARES.

 

[babe]

Good post except for the Mormon whining. Leave the religion out of it -- NOBODY CARES.

Mormons should object to having their reputations soiled by politicians who are not actually honest in their conduct. I'd think you had a point if Romney wasn't pulling out all the stops to throw the mud on everyone else. If he can dish it out, he should expect to take it.

Actually, my point is directed equally at democrats and republicans. And I expect better of Mormons. But more "traditional" bible-believer christians are getting a bad impression of Mormons from folks like Reid and Romney, and the leadership of the LDS church should be concerned about that.

We have a few mormons in here who are mostly pretty loyal to their beliefs. I threw that out as a sort of challenge to the usual LDS habit of cheering for their own and reacting with apologetics or compassion to their own when under fire. It's not a stretch, really, when the LDS regularly puts out public relations statements distancing the faith from the transgressions of individuals who are involved in child abuse, fraud, or other crimes:

"The LDS Church does not endorse any individual politicians of any party, whether or not they are members in good standing. It is too controversial for the LDS Church to enter into trials for good standing over individual political actions or beliefs, no matter how morally compromising or despicable or unconstitutional those individual actions in the public affairs of our nation may be. We have been beaten silly in the media for over one hundred and eighty years in every possible way, for every conceivable criticism without any limit for detachment from reality or facts, and we just want to continue to gather in our religious services and continue to believe as we do. And no matter what some members may have done politically, we are going to let God judge them at the final judgment."

In Utah, the tradition is that negative campaign rhetoric gets a huge backlash vote from the Mormons. We just know whining, carping, and exagerated critical or hateful attacks are wrong, so we don't vote for people who do that. But Romney uses the tactic for all it's worth, well, maybe except here in Utah.

Actually, this is something Franklin can address from his experience with some of the more "constitutionally-conscious" LDS who banned him for quoting Pres. Gordon B. Hinckley in their forum. If you're LDS and concerned about preserving the constitution, you have to just tread very lightly around LDS members who are going along with the current political trend. . .. well, let's say, the trend of the past one hundred years at least. Let's look at Reid and Romney, and ask the question, when are the LDS going to react enough to help maintain constitutional principles?

But, yah, you're right. If I want to keep the focus on the vote count fraud in Maine I should not have whined about the Mormon stuff. Probably ruined my own thread.

So now I've beaten that dead horse to death twice, anybody want to comment about the Maine vote count?

Or do I just have to delete this thread and start over. We have a lot of Ron Paul people here. I thought he deserves some notice.

 

[TroutBum]

I'm an avid Romney hater, but not because I think he's done anything that would lead me to believe he's not a good Mo'. I am not a huge Reid fan either, but again, I've never read or seen anything that makes me cringe as a Mormon. People like Me, BeanTool and Craig1221 are the real problems with the perception of Mormonism.

 

[babe]

I'm an avid Romney hater, but not because I think he's done anything that would lead me to believe he's not a good Mo'. I am not a huge Reid fan either, but again, I've never read or seen anything that makes me cringe as a Mormon. People like Me, BeanTool and Craig1221 are the real problems with the perception of Mormonism.

My family legends held that the Romneys are as good as relatives, and I grew up with a tremendous awe for Mitt's dad, George. Legend had it he was named after my grandpa. But I'm the black sheep in my family, and have spent most of my life debunking legends like that. Actually not related, except by legend, to the Romneys. Damn.

I did learn something nobody has ever talked about in my family. My great great grandpa was the first territorial governor of Idaho. This was an important find, because my wife had been bragging about being descended from one of the most respected Governors Idaho has ever had. However, I found my information in a book about the great mining scams of the nineteenth century.

I just decided not to blab the whole story myself just now, according to my own rendition of it. Suffice it to say I've had my day of having big ideas and poor judgment myself, and my whole purpose in rehashing some of these topics is generally a form of self-flagellation, in probably vain hope of reforming myself as much as the nation. . . .

I just realize that unless we get mad about stuff like the Maine vote count and insist on better conduct, nothing else we do in our public or national life is ever going to work out for anything better.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

Doesn't Ron seem a wee bit too nice? I would be constantly harping on the irregularities we have seen thus far. I even said that I expected there to be weird things happening with the vote counts during the summer when no votes had happened yet, but I was also under the impression that it might take a little work to get to the bottom of it, but this stuff is just so blatant. I don't see how anybody can have faith in our electoral process anymore.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

I'm an avid Romney hater, but not because I think he's done anything that would lead me to believe he's not a good Mo'. I am not a huge Reid fan either, but again, I've never read or seen anything that makes me cringe as a Mormon. People like Me, BeanTool and Craig1221 are the real problems with the perception of Mormonism.

The Mormons you don't want to listen to all speak with Delphi technique training. You know, the NPR voice? Or the Harry Reid voice? Or the Bill Gates voice? Or when the General Relief Society president speaks at a GC and talks like her audience is a bunch of preschoolers? Yeah, anybody that does that outside of parenting their little children is usually a big faker.

 

[Stoked]

Mormons should object to having their reputations soiled by politicians who are not actually honest in their conduct. I'd think you had a point if Romney wasn't pulling out all the stops to throw the mud on everyone else. If he can dish it out, he should expect to take it.

Actually, my point is directed equally at democrats and republicans. And I expect better of Mormons. But more "traditional" bible-believer christians are getting a bad impression of Mormons from folks like Reid and Romney, and the leadership of the LDS church should be concerned about that.

We have a few mormons in here who are mostly pretty loyal to their beliefs. I threw that out as a sort of challenge to the usual LDS habit of cheering for their own and reacting with apologetics or compassion to their own when under fire. It's not a stretch, really, when the LDS regularly puts out public relations statements distancing the faith from the transgressions of individuals who are involved in child abuse, fraud, or other crimes:

"The LDS Church does not endorse any individual politicians of any party, whether or not they are members in good standing. It is too controversial for the LDS Church to enter into trials for good standing over individual political actions or beliefs, no matter how morally compromising or despicable or unconstitutional those individual actions in the public affairs of our nation may be. We have been beaten silly in the media for over one hundred and eighty years in every possible way, for every conceivable criticism without any limit for detachment from reality or facts, and we just want to continue to gather in our religious services and continue to believe as we do. And no matter what some members may have done politically, we are going to let God judge them at the final judgment."

In Utah, the tradition is that negative campaign rhetoric gets a huge backlash vote from the Mormons. We just know whining, carping, and exagerated critical or hateful attacks are wrong, so we don't vote for people who do that. But Romney uses the tactic for all it's worth, well, maybe except here in Utah.

Actually, this is something Franklin can address from his experience with some of the more "constitutionally-conscious" LDS who banned him for quoting Pres. Gordon B. Hinckley in their forum. If you're LDS and concerned about preserving the constitution, you have to just tread very lightly around LDS members who are going along with the current political trend. . .. well, let's say, the trend of the past one hundred years at least. Let's look at Reid and Romney, and ask the question, when are the LDS going to react enough to help maintain constitutional principles?

But, yah, you're right. If I want to keep the focus on the vote count fraud in Maine I should not have whined about the Mormon stuff. Probably ruined my own thread.

So now I've beaten that dead horse to death twice, anybody want to comment about the Maine vote count?

Or do I just have to delete this thread and start over. We have a lot of Ron Paul people here. I thought he deserves some notice.

That is not an LDS habit it is a human habit.

 

[babe]

I'm an avid Romney hater, but not because I think he's done anything that would lead me to believe he's not a good Mo'. I am not a huge Reid fan either, but again, I've never read or seen anything that makes me cringe as a Mormon. People like Me, BeanTool and Craig1221 are the real problems with the perception of Mormonism.

This sort of personal honesty deserves an actual relevant response. Mormons, in my experience and judgment, are mostly of a "missionary mindset" where we look at people pretty kindly or charitably as we associate with them in the faith. It is true that Romney and maybe even Reid carry no known or probable personal baggage in terms of personal moral problems like being alcoholic, afflicted with drug dependencies, or surplus sexual experimentation/addiction, and hence Trout can make an actually valid statement that they are apparently pretty good Mormons.

I listen to FM 95.5 as my favorite radio fare, which is the "Bible Broadcast Network", a huge born-again Christian outreach from North Carolina, and they carry the Pacific Garden Mission's very long-standing classic missionary program "Unshackled", which is basically a running documentary on personal salvation experiences of people whose lives were so hopelessly broken by alcohol, criminal, abusive, and other serious personal addictions you'd imagine there was no possible hope for a change, until they came to Jesus and gave their souls to Him, saying "Come into my life Lord Jesus", with pretty positive subsequent victory in Jesus.

However, the emphasis is slightly different between Mormons and these kinds of Christians on certain issues. Christians of that sort will accept others' personal failings in the past when there's been such a confession, and count them as true christians. Mormons in some respects will "keep score", perhaps silently and with kindly smiles on their faces, while not fully trusting people to have actually changed. Thus a Mormon who has changed will go on carrying in his own opinion, and with substantial undercurrents of the same judgment in family and friends, a realization that they are not good examples and feel that people like them are not good examples of Mormonism. Well, if the basic tenet of Christianity is that faith can help us, we Mormons ought to have a program like "Unshackled" running to show how repentance saves us humans from sins, and maybe we'd believe it more.

Folks like Newt Gingrich, on the other hand, can almost pass muster as real Christians, by simple rhetorical assertions. But I was actually amazed that the southern christian vote went pretty hard against Gingrich in the press of this election campaign, because his continued association with politically important affiliations like the insiders of the Council on Foreign Relations, and his record of deal-making with the honchos were still being "kept score" in christian conservative minds, despite his claims to have finally seen the light in his personal life and his belief that conservative principles can bring our nation back.

So here's how the Gingrich campaign is openly acknowledging how the GOP elites have been attempting to give us another loser in Romney":

https://www.timetochoose.com/

The Republican Party is at a crossroads.

There's a battle going on between the establishment minority, and the conservative majority.
Between the GOP establishment that cares only about its own power. And the conservative majority that wants power returned to the people.

The establishment minority wants us to hold our noses and vote for the Massachusetts moderate. They tell us he is the best man to beat PresidentObama. They tell us he is the best we can do.


We've been down this road before.

• In 1976, they gave us Gerald Ford. We got Jimmy Carter.

• In 1996, they gave us Bob Dole. We got Bill Clinton.

• In 2008, they gave us John McCain. We got Barak Obama.
Now they're trying sell us Mitt Romney.Don't let them. Not this time.


The establishment does not believe what we believe.

They do not see the threats to our freedom, our Constitution and the America we hold dear. They only see a threat to their power. They think they control the Republican Party. But they have a problem.

There are more of us then there are of them.

We the conservative majority can take our party - AND our country - back. We can return the GOP back to it's core principles. And it's proud heritage.

This from the one candidate with substantial real experience working with the GOP establishment as a real mover and shaker on their own terms. Newt is an incredibly smart person, and pragmatic to beat the band. I find his ideas pretty compelling and realistic, and I think he is probably actually the best man we could put in office----if he actually believes what he says. He would be personally strong enough to actually make a difference for our country. And the fact is, he did some pretty good things when he was the house majority leader in the Clinton years, and has the personal record for doing a lot of good things he actually believes.

But I think the first realization we have to look for in our next President is in the line of personal repentance from being hooded by the honchos. We have just got to say elitism is wrong, and that this country belongs to the people. Newt doesn't quite convince me he's changed that much.

So it's only Ron Paul who has the consistent record on constitutional issues.

 

[TroutBum]

How is anyone supposed to take that quote seriously with those grammatical errors? Then and than? Missing words? Doesn't anyone proofread this crap?

 

[babe]

Doesn't Ron seem a wee bit too nice? I would be constantly harping on the irregularities we have seen thus far. I even said that I expected there to be weird things happening with the vote counts during the summer when no votes had happened yet, but I was also under the impression that it might take a little work to get to the bottom of it, but this stuff is just so blatant. I don't see how anybody can have faith in our electoral process anymore.

Some conservative elements of the Republican side, the NewsMax folks, actually ran story about how Ron Paul and Mitt Romney have made a deal, as personal friends. They do not attack one another. I wondered if it was just a desperate ploy by the pro-Gingrich folks to discredit them both.

It made me pull back and not donate to Paul like I would have. Fifty bucks is a big deal for me, and I want to use it wisely. It can be read in maybe two different ways:

Paul clearly knows where the bears go poop in the woods, and knows he needs to work with moderates and even democrats to get things done, and he's focused on just getting his message out knowing the media isn't going to give his ideas any air. Maybe he hopes to make more of a difference by being a team player and securing some aliances or at least personal clout with the party honchos. Last cycle his delegates were not even recognized at the convention, so being treated this way is just old hat, expected stuff, but he knows he's making a point about what a lot of people are willing to support.

Maybe even Romney knows where the bears go poop in the woods, too. Maybe Romney wants a credible record for actually respecting and working with the true constitutional-principled conservatives, and is in fact telling Ron Paul he appreciates the thing he's doing, because it needs to be done, and maybe Romney is actually going to take some of the more reasonable and important steps in that direction????

I think it's more like it's Paul who knows the score, and knows he's not going to run again, and that his only chance to actually make a difference is to build a working partnership with whoever is going to be the GOP candidate.

I can't see giving fifty bucks to someone who can't do the job, and knows he can't. (Paul)

Or to someone who doesn't understand what the job really is.(All the other GOP candidates)

Hence, my point about how the GOP has lost real support from a lot of their base, in Maine and all across the country. They are actually handing our country over to the honchos. We have nowhere to go, but to a third party. That's why I'm in a third party.

 

[babe]

How is anyone supposed to take that quote seriously with those grammatical errors? Then and than? Missing words? Doesn't anyone proofread this crap?

I pulled the quote from my email inbox, and attributed it to the sender. I edited out some stuff like highlights and large print and maybe introduced a typo or two. And I'm sure it's not written to please your high school grammarian/English teacher, it's trying to catch a glimpse from otherwise harried eyeballs before the delete button takes effect.

Pretty clear Newt supporters are trying the best they can to claim the conservative "high ground", and that is the essence of my point here.

Well, I've got to close shop here until maybe Monday. On the Road again.

 

[franklin]

Mormons should object to having their reputations soiled by politicians who are not actually honest in their conduct. I'd think you had a point if Romney wasn't pulling out all the stops to throw the mud on everyone else. If he can dish it out, he should expect to take it.

Au contraire. Mitt Romney is a shining example for Mormanity. I couldn't think of a better political candidate to represent the LDS church. He's successful, industrious, honest, true to his religion, and cares for America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5WI1FrUNzA

 

[babe]

Au contraire. Mitt Romney is a shining example for Mormanity. I couldn't think of a better political candidate to represent the LDS church. He's successful, industrious, honest, true to his religion, and cares for America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5WI1FrUNzA

I know the "Mormanity" host isn't going to vote for Mitt.

In his blog, he discusses leadership principles, and he believes a candidate is qualified not by tactic nor technique, as in the ad you linked, but by who he actually is. He actually is going to continue the same trajectory we've been on, to our destruction:

The more a relationship matters, the less "skills" matter, and the more important it is who were are, not what techniques we practice. Using techniques from a book or course to deal with relationships can backfire, for people figure out that they are being manipulated with techniques.

https://www.jefflindsay.com/mormanity/mormanity-07-04.shtml


So Mitt is cashing in his pearls of rewards for the coming world to try to buy the Presidency. Jesus says if you do good works, don't publish it to the community, or you'll have no reward for in the the world to come. If you do it for the praise of Man, they might praise you, and you might bask in the glow a while, but that is your reward. If you want to please God, do all the good you can just don't try to cash in on it personally for your benefit in the here and now.

Far from establishing your point, you have proven mine.