Why doesn't Utah have a Lottery?

[SaltyDawg]

Are you practicing for your spot on MSNBC where you do your best to miss the picture while scoring juvenile news hit points?

Look, I don't have a dog in this race. I wouldn't even go as far as Jazzman12 did by looking at the effects on society. If you want a lottery then have a damn lottery, what do I care? The only thing I ask is if you're going to come up with solutions to some newfound social problems caused by the lottery then have the money come from the lottery. That way I don't have to support the Retrain John The Plumber Because He Lost Everything Buying Lottery Tickets Fund if I don't want to. Those who want to support the cause can buy lottos or give directly to the fund.

Trout asked for the positives AND negatives and I'm giving the opposing argument to the uneducated redneck notion that not having a lottery is automatically a deficit to Utah's economy, and to this nonsense that having one elsewhere does not have negative economic impacts as well as positive. Anyone (like you) who says otherwise is cluelessly spouting out their *** and has their mind made up before and regardless of what the facts are. Economies don't exist in a vacuum and analyzing something as complex as this must take in both sides of the equation. I don't see why you wear it as a badge of honor to foolishly look at one side only while cramming your head as deep inside a procession of 12 mule asses as you can to avoid the other.

Or I could put it in Salty terms by saying we should legalize underage prostitution because they have it in Sri Lanka and people are going there because it's illegal here and we're losing money because of it. Yeah.

So your solution is to have a big government that protects us from ourselves, even raising taxes to pay for it if needed. And then you say I'm the one who should be on MSNBC, lol.

I don't know about underage prostitution. Kids aren't adults and should not be expected to make decisions like that. Just like I am not advocating that kids should be allowed to drink, smoke weed, or even play the lottery. However, I DO think drinking, smoking weed, playing the lottery, and even prostitution should be legal for adults. This is America after all. Why the heck shouldn't anyone be allowed to do what they want to do (as long as it isn't hurting anyone but themselves)?

 

[YB85]

As I said above, this money doesn't come from nowhere. If you want extra money to fund things, it's simpler/more cost effective/less regressive to simply increase taxes.

So it's better to increase taxes for everyone rather than allowing a lottery that is optional? If the "majority of the people" don't want a lottery, how will they feel about having their taxes increased? Earmark the proceeds for education and be done with it.

I suspect the amount of money leaving Utah for lotteries in other states is truly miniscule. Do you have any data on that?

It probably is minuscule, but it is still money leaving the state. Why allow that? Do you think that those who drive to Malad are the only ones who would play it? Me neither, and if someone wants to put $10 on Powerball tickets instead of groceries, god bless 'em. We can't babysit everyone.

 

[SaltyDawg]

The fact that the educational system is ****. It is not that hard to figure out really.

You are impossible to have a conversation with because you are a condescending jackass. Welcome to an exclusive list you twit.

Utah's educational system is not ****. Can you tell me what criteria you are basing this on?

Like I said, Utah already spends the lowest amount per student (or close anyway) and gets upper tier results. If you're saying the educational system is **** and can't tell anyone exactly what you mean by that, then you've probably been watching too much Fox News.

Again, the issue IS money in Utah. We're spending more tax dollars on it than any other state (per person), but we have so many kids that those dollars are stretched thinner than any other state. So we need more revenue, and it needs to come from a new source.

 

[Stoked]

No. I looked, but only found articles that listed us as spending dead last per student. Nothin about the per taxpayer...on that I'm going off something I heard a few years ago. I'll keep looking.

Yeah I could not find it either. It would be interesting to see how Utah stacks up.

 

[franklin]

We had fun. The kids got a little restless after a few hours, but it was enjoyable. We listened to a lot of Rammstein and there is some sort of weird awesomeness hearing both my 4 year old and 1 year old singing in German.

I have a goal now of getting you with your 4 and 1 year old girls fishing on the boat with my 4 and 1 year old boys when our womenz are working/sleeping. Charge that ipod and get ready to trust us five to put up the orange flag when you eat **** skiing at top speed--somewhere around 22 mph.

Oh, and bring the Asian too so we can have some real fun afterward.

 

[colton]

So it's better to increase taxes for everyone rather than allowing a lottery that is optional? If the "majority of the people" don't want a lottery, how will they feel about having their taxes increased? Earmark the proceeds for education and be done with it.

I still think preferentially taxing the poorest and least educated people is one of the worst suggestions ever--even if it's a self-selected "opt in". Again, if you want more funds for education there are many better ways to achieve that.

And frankly, it's a complete red herring saying that the funds will go toward education. The only reason people claim that (in my opinion) is to get others to agree to hold a lottery. Almost certainly what will happen is that the funds that have historically gone towards education will be reduced, and the total amount going towards education will be basically the same.

It probably is minuscule, but it is still money leaving the state. Why allow that? Do you think that those who drive to Malad are the only ones who would play it? Me neither, and if someone wants to put $10 on Powerball tickets instead of groceries, god bless 'em. We can't babysit everyone.

And if/when they win some money in the lottery I guess it's money coming back into the state. The net is pretty miniscule as I said in an earlier post.

 

[colton]

Yeah I could not find it either. It would be interesting to see how Utah stacks up.

Don't have time to look this up right now, but I did about a year ago and found what others in the thread have said--that Utah is basically at the very bottom in terms of spending per student, but close to the top in terms of spending per family (or spending per taxpayer).

 

[Stoked]

Don't have time to look this up right now, but I did about a year ago and found what others in the thread have said--that Utah is basically at the very bottom in terms of spending per student, but close to the top in terms of spending per family (or spending per taxpayer).

This post reminded me and this is what I found.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article...-percentage-of-budget-spent-on-education.html

Has Utah at #10 in ranking of % of total budget. The other link I listed shows Utah as last as $ per child. Interesting...

 

[Deleted member 365]

Here's something:

https://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?page_id=328

False.

Why don't you look up the latest data produced by the utahfoundation?

https://www.utahfoundation.org/img/pdfs/rr680.pdf

WHAT HAPPENED TO UTAH’S EDUCATION PAR ADOX?
Over the past ten years, Utah Foundation has published a number
of reports on public education funding. Several of these reports
explained “Utah’s education paradox” which was that Utah spent
a higher proportion of personal income on K-12 public education
than most other states while also spending less per pupil than any
other state in the nation. This gap was largely explained by Utah’s
unique demographic makeup; with very high birth rates and a very
young population, there were many school aged children. During
the education paradox years (up to the mid-1990s), Utah’s funding
effort ranked in the top ten nationally, but state demographics caused
low per-pupil spending.
However, by the late 1990s and early 2000s the paradox lessened
as the funding effort slowed. The 2006 report showed that Utah’s
education paradox no longer existed. Utah was still last in the nation
for per-pupil spending, but funding effort was no longer remarkable,
having fallen to around the national average.

Utah's demographics are a contributing factor. However, the paradox doesn't exist anymore since spending in education has been diverted to other programs.

I think it's pretty obvious that Utah's legislation has a pro-private/charter school agenda. Make no mistake, there is a strong lobby to divert money from public education and into the coffers of special interest.

So nice job picking out data gameface to promote your opinion. Try using updated data. And try letting facts form your opinions, not pick out outdated information to conform to your opinion.

 

[SaltyDawg]

And if/when they win some money in the lottery I guess it's money coming back into the state. The net is pretty miniscule as I said in an earlier post.

Not necessarily. I know plenty of people that occasionally go to Idaho for lotto tickets. Heck, I even take the drive every once in a while. Most of the time we win a few bucks here and there and throw the ticket away. I'm not driving back up there to cash in a winning ticket unless it's a pretty big win. And claiming by mail is a joke. One time I won $100. I sent the ticket in by mail, and those ******** mailed me a $2 check.

Anyway, I know lots of people who have won $2, $10, whatever, and just thrown the ticket away. The money doesn't make it to Utah. And even if it's a big prize and someone claims it, Idaho takes their state income tax out of the payout. So they get paid either way.

 

[Deleted member 365]

This post reminded me and this is what I found.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article...-percentage-of-budget-spent-on-education.html

Has Utah at #10 in ranking of % of total budget. The other link I listed shows Utah as last as $ per child. Interesting...

In the mid-late 90s Utah cut taxes. This has hurt funding in many programs, but especially in education. Ultimately, Utah needs to find more revenue via lottery, tax increases, nuke waste storage, etc.

However, even education is divided. Over the past decade more money from income/property taxes that was previously dedicated to K-12 has been directed to higher education....

You take away those funds, then true, you might get those ACs in K-12 and smaller class sizes... But the cost may be shifted to higher education.... Then you'll pay more in tuition and fees once you hit college.

 

[Deleted member 365]

The school calander is nothing new. How have we been able to do it all these years without AC? I guess they just don't make kids like they used to.

Ummmm.... When was the last time you set foot in a classroom?

Do you have kids btw?

Just curious.

You act as if kids learned better 50 or 100 years ago without AC.

Do you really want to argue that having better technology, better AC, and better facilities doesn't improve student performance?

I remember reading a Dnews article just a few months ago that consisted of studies that proved that brighter schools with windows actually improved memory and retention.

It's not a stretch to believe that providing better and more comfortable environments will improve education.

Want proof in the pudding? Next time you're in your office, turn off the AC. We'll see how well your company performs. If things like AC really didn't help production, then why does every office in America have it?

Come on man, you're anti-public school agenda is getting old.

From these stupid comments to your "picking out" information from the utahfoundation.

Stop lying.