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AntiAusterity reigns in European politics

KOC BEGONE said:
Looks like all those European countries that were after Austerity is starting to backfire in their faces. EVen in England the same old tax cuts for the rich tactics are getting old.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/16/us-politicians-europe-austerity-fatigue-elections_n_1520961.html

Discuss
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I have trouble accepting anything from the Huffington Post as anything other than non partisan drivel.

Having said that all the loopholes and crap that the rich enjoy should be closed down.
 
Read this article it seems nonpartisan. The concept that austerity will lead us out of our deficit is a farce. Even if we cut all of our programs. Our intrest on our debt is immense and it didn't all come from Obama. That being said the way to get us out of our current debt is to invest in ourselves. WE need prosperity inorder to generate tax $$$ to afford programs that we have all come to love. Can we make cuts? Sure but look at the places GOPer want to cut. It is in areas of partisan rhetoric. Like NPR, planned parenthood, and the list goes on. What about the trillions in wars and the government subsidies giving to oil companies. Even Romney used govt. subsidies https://swampland.time.com/2012/02/15/mitt-romney-took-advantage-of-government-subsidies-at-bain/
 

Europe Needs Liberty Not Fake Austerity:

Even if some European nations slightly reduced their massive government spending in the name of “austerity,” such measures can hardly be expected to result in economic recoveries, let alone quick ones. By analogy, a man who goes on a “diet” by reducing his daily intake of Twinkies from 100 to 95 should not expect to transform into a model of health.

But the notion that any European nation significantly reduced government spending or controls over the economy is laughable. Responding to the anti-austerity rants of Paul Krugman and Eugene Robinson, the Cato Institute’s Michael Tanner points out that, far from cutting spending, Portugal went on a “massive Keynesian spending” spree. Tanner notes that “the average EU government consumes more than half of a country’s GDP,” and in “France . . . the so-called austerity largely consisted of raising taxes.”
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If governments are going to recognize debt as being legitimate, then there is no way out of austerity(which isn't really austerity anyhow - it's the old IMF smoke and mirrors tactic of piling more debt via stealth on by claiming its going to solve your debt problems) coming everywhere. And fast. As I've stated on this board many times, the only way out is multi-lateral debt default and debt forgiveness. The West is going to be mired in no growth/low growth/or negative growth until that happens even with all this artificial stimulus being pumped in by central bankers the world around.

But hey, anybody in France that thinks Holldande is going to change anything, might look to Obama supporters for comfort. Both promise the easy life, both can speak well, and both have no grasp on reality.
 
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KOC BEGONE said:
Read this article it seems nonpartisan. The concept that austerity will lead us out of our deficit is a farce. Even if we cut all of our programs. Our intrest on our debt is immense and it didn't all come from Obama. That being said the way to get us out of our current debt is to invest in ourselves. WE need prosperity inorder to generate tax $$$ to afford programs that we have all come to love. Can we make cuts? Sure but look at the places GOPer want to cut. It is in areas of partisan rhetoric. Like NPR, planned parenthood, and the list goes on. What about the trillions in wars and the government subsidies giving to oil companies. Even Romney used govt. subsidies https://swampland.time.com/2012/02/15/mitt-romney-took-advantage-of-government-subsidies-at-bain/
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Of course it is lol. I am not defending the GOP. I am jsut saying they are not the devil you want them to be and that the Dems have their hands just as dirty.
 
The developed world will slowly but surely come around to the concept that taxing and spending our way out of deflation is the only way out.
 
Stoked said:
Of course it is lol. I am not defending the GOP. I am jsut saying they are not the devil you want them to be and that the Dems have their hands just as dirty.
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True, but when you look at it which is the less of the two evils????? And all of the blame on Obama is complete BUll%#$$. The economy is in the crapper right now because of the greed of Americans.
 
KOC BEGONE said:
True, but when you look at it which is the less of the two evils????? And all of the blame on Obama is complete BUll%#$$. The economy is in the crapper right now because of the greed of Americans.
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Two arguements can be made there. 1. It is part of the job and 2. the left did the same to Bush. I will only defend #2.

Having said that I see them as two sides of the same coin with the majority of ameriicans living on the edge. They are both equally guilty of the mess we are in. One is no worse than the other.

Why do I have to be racist if I do not agree with Obama? Why do I have to be against religion if I support gay marriage?

They both play that game equally and for you to imply that they do not is either intellectually dishonest or you truly are blinded to the left because you are so focused on the right.

Edit; As for all the blame on Obama is B.S. well no arguement here. Last I checked he was not the only branch of government. Goes back to my blame them all approach.
 
KOC, please provide your definition of equality and greed. Thanks!

I would argue that greed exists in all human endeavors. It is the easiest accusation to make and (as in your use of it) requires zero substantiation.

Equality can be material, opportunity and or rights/freedom oriented. How do you mean it? Please provide me with a laugh and tell me all of the above.
 
I would say the citizens of nearly bankrupt nations are expressing enormous greed in their demand to be provided with material comforts despite the reality that they can't afford it.
 
Gameface said:
I would say the citizens of nearly bankrupt nations are expressing enormous greed in their demand to be provided with material comforts despite the reality that they can't afford it.
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This is only egged on by the notion that government will care for all your needs.
 
Stoked said:
Two arguements can be made there. 1. It is part of the job and 2. the left did the same to Bush. I will only defend #2.

Having said that I see them as two sides of the same coin with the majority of ameriicans living on the edge. They are both equally guilty of the mess we are in. One is no worse than the other.

Why do I have to be racist if I do not agree with Obama? Why do I have to be against religion if I support gay marriage?

They both play that game equally and for you to imply that they do not is either intellectually dishonest or you truly are blinded to the left because you are so focused on the right.

Edit; As for all the blame on Obama is B.S. well no arguement here. Last I checked he was not the only branch of government. Goes back to my blame them all approach.
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Bush did cut taxes and send us into two wars. After weapons of mass destruction that turned out never even existed. YOu can't tell me that if a hand full of Israel extremists attacked the US that we would go and pound that country with missiles.

I'm not saying that you are racist if you agree with Obama. Or be against religion if your support gay marriage. Just that is what is being preached from the tops of the GOP pulpits. And they are more racist toward hispanics than Obama.

As for the jobs issue tell me how the government can create jobs? I see it one of two ways. We can cut taxes....well that happened and after 10+ years of the Bush tax cuts it seems companies have cut more than they have added. Or the government can inject money into the state on projects like road construction, etc. Every time Obama does this the states either sit on the money or they make some dirty back room deal with a company. What does anyone think that they he can do?
 
Point of fact: Iraq possessed chemical weapons.

If you want the full explanation I will provide it for the 10th or 20th time here on Jazzfanz.
 
KOC BEGONE said:
Bush did cut taxes and send us into two wars. After weapons of mass destruction that turned out never even existed. YOu can't tell me that if a hand full of Israel extremists attacked the US that we would go and pound that country with missiles.

I'm not saying that you are racist if you agree with Obama. Or be against religion if your support gay marriage. Just that is what is being preached from the tops of the GOP pulpits. And they are more racist toward hispanics than Obama.

As for the jobs issue tell me how the government can create jobs? I see it one of two ways. We can cut taxes....well that happened and after 10+ years of the Bush tax cuts it seems companies have cut more than they have added. Or the government can inject money into the state on projects like road construction, etc. Every time Obama does this the states either sit on the money or they make some dirty back room deal with a company. What does anyone think that they he can do?
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General statements and I did not mean to indicate you had. If that is how it came across then my apologies.

As for the Isreali extremist scenario. If that extremist faction supported, housed and protected by the government? (see afghanistan).

As for Obama then what about drone strikes into Pakistan, Libya...

If you want to blame everything on the right then feel free. I have led you to water but if you do not wish to drink that is on you.
 
Gameface said:
KOC, please provide your definition of equality and greed. Thanks!

I would argue that greed exists in all human endeavors. It is the easiest accusation to make and (as in your use of it) requires zero substantiation.

Equality can be material, opportunity and or rights/freedom oriented. How do you mean it? Please provide me with a laugh and tell me all of the above.
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YOu do not think that greed has put us where we are? I would love to hear why.

I never said I was for equality. What I'm for is when is someone going to realize that the gap between the rich and the poor is out of control. I have no problem with greed there are times when greed is a force of good and there are times when greed is a force of destruction. When Goldmann Sachs tells group A of to 'buy' then they tell group B to 'hedge against that same stock'. That is destructive greed. When a bank tells its loan officers to push predatory loans on an uneducated public. That is destructive greed.
 
KOC BEGONE said:
When Goldmann Sachs tells group A of to 'buy' then they tell group B to 'hedge against that same stock'. That is destructive greed. When a bank tells its loan officers to push predatory loans on an uneducated public. That is destructive greed.
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This falls on the heads of the idiots that choose to do business with Goldman Sachs. I would argue that it is just as much blind greed that drives fools to do business with GS as it is GS being greedy by handing out conflicting investment advice. After last weeks debacle everyone should treat JP Morgan Chase like kryptonite but you know what? They'll be just fine because of all the greedy ******** that think JP Morgan Chase will make them money. Who's the greedy ********?
 
KOC BEGONE said:
YOu do not think that greed has put us where we are? I would love to hear why.

I never said I was for equality. What I'm for is when is someone going to realize that the gap between the rich and the poor is out of control. I have no problem with greed there are times when greed is a force of good and there are times when greed is a force of destruction. When Goldmann Sachs tells group A of to 'buy' then they tell group B to 'hedge against that same stock'. That is destructive greed. When a bank tells its loan officers to push predatory loans on an uneducated public. That is destructive greed.
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From what I understand this is due to the Dems pushing changes in regulation and laws. I will need time to confirm that.
 
Stoked said:
From what I understand this is due to the Dems pushing changes in regulation and laws. I will need time to confirm that.
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New fed regulation laws didn't stop JP Morgan Chase from losing 2 billion in 6 weeks. Most regulation causes as many problems as it proposes to fix.
 
Scat said:
New fed regulation laws didn't stop JP Morgan Chase from losing 2 billion in 6 weeks. Most regulation causes as many problems as it proposes to fix.
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I was thinking specifically of the Fannie Fae and Freddie Mac home loans. Again I could be wrong.
 
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