WI Gubernatorial Recall

[JimLes]

1. Teacher unions lobby against vouchers. That takes away my ability to potentially send my child to a better school.

Because, of course, education would work much better if people with money could send all their kids to one school, and all the poor, troubled kids would be at another. That's equality, right there.

2. Teacher unions (unions in general) make it next to impossible to fire bad employees. In your teacher example that makes it more likely that my child gets a bad teacher.

Teachers are actually quite easy to fire. The standard of personal conduct we are held to is pretty strict, even for professionals. When was the last time you read about a stock broker being fired because he was in a porno movie?

4. Mandatory particiaption (not all unions). Why should I be forced to give money to people that do not necesarily represnt me. If I want to I can if I do not I should not be forced.

Because you want to be a teacher, and as such you ought to probably fulfill whatever conditions the teachers' organization sets. It's no different than the Bar, the Medical Association, etc.

 

[green]

Because, of course, education would work much better if people with money could send all their kids to one school, and all the poor, troubled kids would be at another. That's equality, right there.

Already happening. It is called private schools. Vouchers at least give kids a chance to go to private schools. Right now, they have no choice.

Teachers are actually quite easy to fire. The standard of personal conduct we are held to is pretty strict, even for professionals. When was the last time you read about a stock broker being fired because he was in a porno movie?

Completely irrelevant example. I care if a teacher is in a porno because they are molding KIDS. Stock brokers usually have no involvement with kids...unless you count 18 year old girls with daddy issues.

Because you want to be a teacher, and as such you ought to probably fulfill whatever conditions the teachers' organization sets. It's no different than the Bar, the Medical Association, etc.

Again, bad example. Those associations aren't FORCED. If you don't want to be a part of it, you don't have to.

 

[Stoked]

Because, of course, education would work much better if people with money could send all their kids to one school, and all the poor, troubled kids would be at another. That's equality, right there.



Teachers are actually quite easy to fire. The standard of personal conduct we are held to is pretty strict, even for professionals. When was the last time you read about a stock broker being fired because he was in a porno movie?



Because you want to be a teacher, and as such you ought to probably fulfill whatever conditions the teachers' organization sets. It's no different than the Bar, the Medical Association, etc.

No they are not. Can they be fired? Yes but it is not "easy" . Your whole arguement there is that you want the people shaping the minds and outlooks of our future to be the same as stock brokers? No thanks. I'd prefer my teachers to be morally better than a stock broker.

I should not have to fill any "conditions" set by a teachers union, just the ones set by government.

Now, again, I am not "anti-union" per se but I do not like the over aggressive ******** that they do either. They have their place but they, in my opinion, have abandoned that place and are going crazy.

 

[Scat]

Because, of course, education would work much better if people with money could send all their kids to one school, and all the poor, troubled kids would be at another. That's equality, right there.

Right now only well-to-do parents can send their kids to private school. Vouchers would at least give less wealthy parents the opportunity to send their child to a private school. It gives parents' choices. It's my tax money paid to the govt for my child's education. Why do I have to spend it based on your dictates?

 

[JimLes]

My point is that teachers need a union because if I had to negotiate my contract individually, I would get eaten alive. You can't on one hand say that teachers are different from stock brokers, then turn around and say they should be treated like every private sector employee.

We're not private sector. We operate under completely different circumstances. How many of you have ever gotten a pay cut because your management was trying to score cheap populist points before an election? How many of you have ended up in the papers because of allegations of misconduct at work? How many of you have your performance standards set not by the industry or the market, but by politicians?

 

[JimLes]

Right now only well-to-do parents can send their kids to private school. Vouchers would at least give less wealthy parents the opportunity to send their child to a private school. It gives parents' choices. It's my tax money paid to the govt for my child's education. Why do I have to spend it based on your dictates?

If it was up to me, private schools would be illegal, along with home schooling. If you want private schools, we should just have a completely private school system and then you could all live with it.

 

[Scat]

How many of you have ever gotten a pay cut because your management was trying to score cheap populist points before an election?

Have you ever taken a pay cut because the board of directors is trying to impress the stock holders before a shareholders meeting? I have. Same crap. Cry me a river.

 

[Stoked]

Because, of course, education would work much better if people with money could send all their kids to one school, and all the poor, troubled kids would be at another. That's equality, right there.



Teachers are actually quite easy to fire. The standard of personal conduct we are held to is pretty strict, even for professionals. When was the last time you read about a stock broker being fired because he was in a porno movie?



Because you want to be a teacher, and as such you ought to probably fulfill whatever conditions the teachers' organization sets. It's no different than the Bar, the Medical Association, etc.

You did not ask for what is "fair" for everyone. You asked what hurts me and I told you. Taking away my chance to send my child to a better school hurts me and my child. The unfairness you are railing against already exists. Denying school vouchers just guarantees that it continues for everyone and that no one has a chance of getting more.

I firmly reject that notion that if I have a chance to better my childs future I should not take it because littel SUzies parents down the block did not get that chance. Even reverse that. If little Suzies parents came to me saying they were not taking the opportunity to better their childs future by sending her to a better school, because I didn't get the chance to do that for my daughters, I'd call them idiots to their faces.

 

[JimLes]

I guess that's what makes you Americans different from the rest of the world. I am quite okay with forcing a few to suffer for the good of the many.

 

[Stoked]

My point is that teachers need a union because if I had to negotiate my contract individually, I would get eaten alive. You can't on one hand say that teachers are different from stock brokers, then turn around and say they should be treated like every private sector employee.

We're not private sector. We operate under completely different circumstances. How many of you have ever gotten a pay cut because your management was trying to score cheap populist points before an election? How many of you have ended up in the papers because of allegations of misconduct at work? How many of you have your performance standards set not by the industry or the market, but by politicians?

Which is why I do not consider myself against unions necesarily. They do have their palce and they can do alot of good. They are turning/have turned into something else entirely though.

As for you wanting to ban private shcools. Well that is a perfect example of why people are against unions.

 

[JimLes]

Have you ever taken a pay cut because the board of directors is trying to impress the stock holders before a shareholders meeting? I have. Same crap. Cry me a river.

Well, get a union, muffin. That's why they exist. To protect me from crap.

 

[green]

My point is that teachers need a union because if I had to negotiate my contract individually, I would get eaten alive. You can't on one hand say that teachers are different from stock brokers, then turn around and say they should be treated like every private sector employee.

We're not private sector. We operate under completely different circumstances. How many of you have ever gotten a pay cut because your management was trying to score cheap populist points before an election? How many of you have ended up in the papers because of allegations of misconduct at work? How many of you have your performance standards set not by the industry or the market, but by politicians?

ALL THE TIME. Did you miss the whole recession that has been going on? Oh, that's right you didn't because you belong to an union. People all across America had to take pay cuts or be fired. You guys live in a fantasy world.

Performance standards set by politicians? Give me a break. My whole career is defined by the standards set by politicians. Everybody's is. From car makers (CAFE standards) to doctors (OSHA, HIPPA), to food manufacturers (no trans fat, no soda in NY) to EVERYBODY. Why do union members get to be exempt from all of the fantastic parts of being an adult?

LOL.