What's new

WI Gubernatorial Recall

Poor example for several reasons. I have my choice of doctors. I am not mandated to one by where I live. Doctors also have a much more rigourous education to become doctors, as they should considering what they do. Doctors are not molding the future as teachers are.

In addition, if I go to a doctor and don't like something about them I can go get a second opinion or change doctors.
 
I'm not asking for total control, I'm asking for professional autonomy. The same one had by doctors, lawyers, accountants...hell, NBA players.

Again, your are talking about licensed professionals. People that HAVE taken calculus, upper division math and science courses, upper division english....not teachers with a high school algebra background in math.

You want the same privileges as LICENSED PROFESSIONALS? Become a licensed professional.

It's damn hard, and good luck. A lot of my undergrad classmates are now teachers.
 
Yes, because high-stakes testing of students is a real reflection of how well a teacher is doing. Of course, you probably believe that content mastery is the only thing students are supposed to get out of education.

Actually, what education is for is to prepare my child to take entrance exams to college. That is the sole purpose of schooling. There are other nice benefits, but they are not the reason I send my kids to school. I am my child's parent. It's up to me to make sure they aren't socially awkward, that they know the importance of showering daily, they know the dangers of per-marital sex, if needed, it is my job to find a babysitter (a teacher is not a babysitter), it is my job to make sure they study at night and actually learn the material that the teacher is presenting.

The whole point of school is to learn a skill that will help the child be a normal, functioning adult. In my opinion, the easiest way for my kid to enjoy their adulthood, is to become a professional. It is up to me to give my child the tools, motivation, and skills to become that. It is up to my child to use those tools. It is up to the teacher to get my child ready to take entrance exams.
 
If it was up to me, private schools would be illegal, along with home schooling. If you want private schools, we should just have a completely private school system and then you could all live with it.

This is the most asinine and ridiculous thing I have ever read on this board. I went to a private school and received a better education than all of my friends that went to public school, and you can be damn straight I'll send my kids to wherever they're going to get the best education. Just because it isn't fair doesn't mean that it's wrong...life isn't fair, deal with it.
 
Actually, what education is for is to prepare my child to take entrance exams to college. That is the sole purpose of schooling. There are other nice benefits, but they are not the reason I send my kids to school. I am my child's parent. It's up to me to make sure they aren't socially awkward, that they know the importance of showering daily, they know the dangers of per-marital sex, if needed, it is my job to find a babysitter (a teacher is not a babysitter), it is my job to make sure they study at night and actually learn the material that the teacher is presenting.

The whole point of school is to learn a skill that will help the child be a normal, functioning adult. In my opinion, the easiest way for my kid to enjoy their adulthood, is to become a professional. It is up to me to give my child the tools, motivation, and skills to become that. It is up to my child to use those tools. It is up to the teacher to get my child ready to take entrance exams.


Absolutely agree. School is just prep for life to come. It's up to the parents to teach their kids life skills, school is preparing them for college/work force and for gaining necessary social skills. I don't need a teacher to tell my kid what his morals should be, that's my job. It's sad how many people I've seen my age (23) that can't write a paper, have almost zero math skills and speak poorly.
 
Absolutely agree. School is just prep for life to come. It's up to the parents to teach their kids life skills, school is preparing them for college/work force and for gaining necessary social skills. I don't need a teacher to tell my kid what his morals should be, that's my job. It's sad how many people I've seen my age (23) that can't write a paper, have almost zero math skills and speak poorly.

I owe you a rep.
 
This is the most asinine and ridiculous thing I have ever read on this board. I went to a private school and received a better education than all of my friends that went to public school, and you can be damn straight I'll send my kids to wherever they're going to get the best education. Just because it isn't fair doesn't mean that it's wrong...life isn't fair, deal with it.

And this is shocking, how? You take all the kids who have money(huge predictor of academic success) and stable home lives, put them all in one school which has more funding and you get a better education? No ****, Sherlock. The fact that this will drag the scores at the public school down even more, thereby causing it to get even less funding, thereby sending everything on a downward spiral is fine.

I guess life isn't fair and we have no obligation to try to make it a bit more fair. Some of you have a really depressing outlook on life.
 
And this is shocking, how? You take all the kids who have money(huge predictor of academic success) and stable home lives, put them all in one school which has more funding and you get a better education? No ****, Sherlock. The fact that this will drag the scores at the public school down even more, thereby causing it to get even less funding, thereby sending everything on a downward spiral is fine.

I guess life isn't fair and we have no obligation to try to make it a bit more fair. Some of you have a really depressing outlook on life.

So why can't a public school get the same kind of teachers? I know it's not like this in most cases, but at my school, our teachers were all paid less than the teachers at local public schools. I still received a better education. You're sitting here complaining about the smart kids going to private schools because they're getting a better education...well no ****. People will always go where they get the best quality, the only way to change that is to provide a better service for the people.
 
So why can't a public school get the same kind of teachers? I know it's not like this in most cases, but at my school, our teachers were all paid less than the teachers at local public schools. I still received a better education. You're sitting here complaining about the smart kids going to private schools because they're getting a better education...well no ****. People will always go where they get the best quality, the only way to change that is to provide a better service for the people.

Unions. That's why. The teachers are taught, as JimLes is demonstrating so well, that it isn't their fault, they don't need to try, and get tenure. Teachers are underfunded, kids all are screwed up, textbooks are too old, teachers aren't paid enough (though they get a lot more than private teachers get), yadda, yadda, yadda.
 
Unions. That's why. The teachers are taught, as JimLes is demonstrating so well, that it isn't their fault, they don't need to try, and get tenure. Teachers are underfunded, kids all are screwed up, textbooks are too old, teachers aren't paid enough (though they get a lot more than private teachers get), yadda, yadda, yadda.

I actually think they are right on those points. However that does not change the overall arguement.
 
Some of the polling I read said many voters objectd to a recall based on political positions, as opposed to malfeasance of some sort.

I'm not sure what it means. I don't understand all the union hate in here. Unions are equalizers in the job market.

What I think progressives must do to avoid the appearance of supporting an overlord form of governance is listen to what people are saying and doing some fence mending.

What I would "hate" is more along the lines of some corrupt system that is indeed not working in the interests of the people. Union or government. Or even private abusers of the common good.
 
Unions. That's why. The teachers are taught, as JimLes is demonstrating so well, that it isn't their fault, they don't need to try, and get tenure. Teachers are underfunded, kids all are screwed up, textbooks are too old, teachers aren't paid enough (though they get a lot more than private teachers get), yadda, yadda, yadda.

In most cases it isn't their fault.

Frankly, the area the school is in has a ton to do with how the school is, especially in a public school that is forced to take nearly every kid in the area. You can hire the best teachers in the world but if they are teaching in a crap hole like east Oakland where the school itself is dangerous, the area around it is dangerous, and the kids live in f'd up homes and don't have any parental figures in their life, those teachers won't amount to jack.

A private school may be able to get away with having a good school in a bad neighborhood if they can cherry pick the most promising students.
 
In most cases it isn't their fault.

Frankly, the area the school is in has a ton to do with how the school is, especially in a public school that is forced to take nearly every kid in the area. You can hire the best teachers in the world but if they are teaching in a crap hole like east Oakland where the school itself is dangerous, the area around it is dangerous, and the kids live in f'd up homes and don't have any parental figures in their life, those teachers won't amount to jack.

A private school may be able to get away with having a good school in a bad neighborhood if they can cherry pick the most promising students.

I don't quite agree. You hear stories of people overcoming poverty and or f'd up homes to become all the time. While it is obviously not the norm, it certainly is possible. I think effort is required on both sides(teacher and student). I can say I was unfortunately forced to go to a public school during my early teenage years and I eventually felt like that set my education back. Not every teacher is there to collect a paycheck, but there were quite a few that were at this school. In the end, if I would have had the voucher choice, I would have probably taken it. There were also some teachers who put that effort forward as previously discussed and I was/am truly thankful that they did.
 
I don't quite agree. You hear stories of people overcoming poverty and or f'd up homes to become all the time. While it is obviously not the norm, it certainly is possible. I think effort is required on both sides(teacher and student). I can say I was unfortunately forced to go to a public school during my early teenage years and I eventually felt like that set my education back. Not every teacher is there to collect a paycheck, but there were quite a few that were at this school. In the end, if I would have had the voucher choice, I would have probably taken it. There were also some teachers who put that effort forward as previously discussed and I was/am truly thankful that they did.

It's possible, but there's a reason why graduation rates are higher in middle to high income areas than in low income areas, and most of it has to do with the fact the area sucks. It's not easy to foster a good learning environment when the students are packing.
 
This is the most un-American statement I have ever heard.

You have a strange notion of what is American. It's American to care about the effects your actions will have on your community. It's American to to say we can't forget or leave behind those with harder struggles. It's American to want all boats to raise, instead of leaving the boats with holes to sink. I don't have much respect for your idea of what it means to be an American.

America was built on the fact that if you work hard, if you put in the time and effort, you can accomplish your dreams.

It was also built on the notion that everyone would get a reasonable chance to have the conditions needed to make those dreams happen.

You are saying that a kid who does things right should be penalized because kids around him aren't doing things right.

Not awarding a special privilege is not a punishment.

I do when it's my money that funds them. Public teachers are funded by taxpayers. They should be 100% neutral politically.

Unions get their money from teachers. Restaurant workers who wait on teachers also get their money from teachers. Should they be politically neutral, or is it only the groups you don't like?

Donations? lol. Good one.

When they are voluntary, dues are basically donations. I see you dodged the main point of that sentence.

More so than they are today.

When was this magical time? When you were a kid? Guess what: kids today still respect teachers.
 
It makes me the expert in regards to my child.

No, it gives you insight into certain aspects of your child. Individual, anecdotal knowledge is very error-prone, and most parents do not understand their children, or their educational needs, as well as people who have training in education.

The concerns and opinions of parent should be represented and to sugest otherwise is pretty extreme in my opinion.

The general concerns of the parent (safe environment, good education, etc.) should be well-represented. The specifics of acheiving those goals (discipline, curriculum, etc.) should be primarily in the hands of people who have studied them.
 
If anything they should be the ones pushing out bad teachers and bad practices.

You think teachers unions don't work to improve curiculum standards, teaching methods, or with individual teachers to improve their skills? How many have you been a part of?
 
Back
Top