In addition, if I go to a doctor and don't like something about them I can go get a second opinion or change doctors.
WI Gubernatorial Recall
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In addition, if I go to a doctor and don't like something about them I can go get a second opinion or change doctors.
green
Well-Known Member
Another bad example. A doctor is licensed by the state to practice medicine. A teacher is licensed by....no one.
green
Well-Known Member
Again, your are talking about licensed professionals. People that HAVE taken calculus, upper division math and science courses, upper division english....not teachers with a high school algebra background in math.
You want the same privileges as LICENSED PROFESSIONALS? Become a licensed professional.
It's damn hard, and good luck. A lot of my undergrad classmates are now teachers.
green
Well-Known Member
Actually, what education is for is to prepare my child to take entrance exams to college. That is the sole purpose of schooling. There are other nice benefits, but they are not the reason I send my kids to school. I am my child's parent. It's up to me to make sure they aren't socially awkward, that they know the importance of showering daily, they know the dangers of per-marital sex, if needed, it is my job to find a babysitter (a teacher is not a babysitter), it is my job to make sure they study at night and actually learn the material that the teacher is presenting.
The whole point of school is to learn a skill that will help the child be a normal, functioning adult. In my opinion, the easiest way for my kid to enjoy their adulthood, is to become a professional. It is up to me to give my child the tools, motivation, and skills to become that. It is up to my child to use those tools. It is up to the teacher to get my child ready to take entrance exams.
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
This is the most asinine and ridiculous thing I have ever read on this board. I went to a private school and received a better education than all of my friends that went to public school, and you can be damn straight I'll send my kids to wherever they're going to get the best education. Just because it isn't fair doesn't mean that it's wrong...life isn't fair, deal with it.
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
Absolutely agree. School is just prep for life to come. It's up to the parents to teach their kids life skills, school is preparing them for college/work force and for gaining necessary social skills. I don't need a teacher to tell my kid what his morals should be, that's my job. It's sad how many people I've seen my age (23) that can't write a paper, have almost zero math skills and speak poorly.
green
Well-Known Member
I owe you a rep.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
And this is shocking, how? You take all the kids who have money(huge predictor of academic success) and stable home lives, put them all in one school which has more funding and you get a better education? No ****, Sherlock. The fact that this will drag the scores at the public school down even more, thereby causing it to get even less funding, thereby sending everything on a downward spiral is fine.
I guess life isn't fair and we have no obligation to try to make it a bit more fair. Some of you have a really depressing outlook on life.
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
So why can't a public school get the same kind of teachers? I know it's not like this in most cases, but at my school, our teachers were all paid less than the teachers at local public schools. I still received a better education. You're sitting here complaining about the smart kids going to private schools because they're getting a better education...well no ****. People will always go where they get the best quality, the only way to change that is to provide a better service for the people.
green
Well-Known Member
Unions. That's why. The teachers are taught, as JimLes is demonstrating so well, that it isn't their fault, they don't need to try, and get tenure. Teachers are underfunded, kids all are screwed up, textbooks are too old, teachers aren't paid enough (though they get a lot more than private teachers get), yadda, yadda, yadda.
I actually think they are right on those points. However that does not change the overall arguement.
What I think progressives must do to avoid the appearance of supporting an overlord form of governance is listen to what people are saying and doing some fence mending.
What I would "hate" is more along the lines of some corrupt system that is indeed not working in the interests of the people. Union or government. Or even private abusers of the common good.
In most cases it isn't their fault.
Frankly, the area the school is in has a ton to do with how the school is, especially in a public school that is forced to take nearly every kid in the area. You can hire the best teachers in the world but if they are teaching in a crap hole like east Oakland where the school itself is dangerous, the area around it is dangerous, and the kids live in f'd up homes and don't have any parental figures in their life, those teachers won't amount to jack.
A private school may be able to get away with having a good school in a bad neighborhood if they can cherry pick the most promising students.
trigg3r
Well-Known Member
I don't quite agree. You hear stories of people overcoming poverty and or f'd up homes to become all the time. While it is obviously not the norm, it certainly is possible. I think effort is required on both sides(teacher and student). I can say I was unfortunately forced to go to a public school during my early teenage years and I eventually felt like that set my education back. Not every teacher is there to collect a paycheck, but there were quite a few that were at this school. In the end, if I would have had the voucher choice, I would have probably taken it. There were also some teachers who put that effort forward as previously discussed and I was/am truly thankful that they did.
It's possible, but there's a reason why graduation rates are higher in middle to high income areas than in low income areas, and most of it has to do with the fact the area sucks. It's not easy to foster a good learning environment when the students are packing.
You have a strange notion of what is American. It's American to care about the effects your actions will have on your community. It's American to to say we can't forget or leave behind those with harder struggles. It's American to want all boats to raise, instead of leaving the boats with holes to sink. I don't have much respect for your idea of what it means to be an American.
It was also built on the notion that everyone would get a reasonable chance to have the conditions needed to make those dreams happen.
Not awarding a special privilege is not a punishment.
Unions get their money from teachers. Restaurant workers who wait on teachers also get their money from teachers. Should they be politically neutral, or is it only the groups you don't like?
When they are voluntary, dues are basically donations. I see you dodged the main point of that sentence.
When was this magical time? When you were a kid? Guess what: kids today still respect teachers.
Because when test scores were higher, all the first-grade teachers knew calculus?
No, it gives you insight into certain aspects of your child. Individual, anecdotal knowledge is very error-prone, and most parents do not understand their children, or their educational needs, as well as people who have training in education.
The general concerns of the parent (safe environment, good education, etc.) should be well-represented. The specifics of acheiving those goals (discipline, curriculum, etc.) should be primarily in the hands of people who have studied them.
You think teachers unions don't work to improve curiculum standards, teaching methods, or with individual teachers to improve their skills? How many have you been a part of?