WI Gubernatorial Recall

[One Brow]

Teachers these days do not need any upper division math, science or english classes to become a teacher. That is ridiculous.

They never have, unless they were teaching high-school math, science, or English. When you walk into a first grade classroom, your calculus skills will be of little relevance.

 

[One Brow]

No, you are okay with forcing others to suffer so you don't have to. That's the difference. You don't want to play by the rules everybody else has to play by.

Nothing is stopping you from forming a union, except perhaps being regulated by the government from doing so.

 

[JimLes]

Personally I think teachers should be held to a much higher standard. Higher requirements to be hired.

Who would determine these? Actual educators or general public?

 

[Stoked]

Who would determine these? Actual educators or general public?

I think one with out the other is idiotic. Of course educators sould have a say, a very healthy one. However the concerns and opinions of the public need to be represented as well.

 

[JimLes]

I think one with out the other is idiotic. Of course educators sould have a say, a very healthy one. However the concerns and opinions of the public need to be represented as well.

Where else are concerns of the general public represented in a professional discourse? NASA is funded by your money, as well as much other scientific research. Would it make sense that the public be able to have a say in that, too? And I know you're going to say that this is your child we're talking about and that this affects you very directly, but none of that makes you an expert in the field.

 

[JimLes]

They never have, unless they were teaching high-school math, science, or English. When you walk into a first grade classroom, your calculus skills will be of little relevance.

The general public still largely believe that content and curriculum mastery is what being a teacher is about. Of course, the general public never had to hold the attention of 30 children of any age for 6 hours.

 

[green]

It also takes away the ability of other parents to drain the school system of resources and the best students, leaving your kid behind with the ones who weren't accpeted by the private schools.

This is the most un-American statement I have ever heard. America was built on the fact that if you work hard, if you put in the time and effort, you can accomplish your dreams. You are saying that a kid who does things right should be penalized because kids around him aren't doing things right.

Do you oppose associations of individuals being politically active?

I do when it's my money that funds them. Public teachers are funded by taxpayers. They should be 100% neutral politically.

You want to ride free on the hard work and donations of the people who support a union. That's ceretainly understandable.

Donations? lol. Good one.

You mean, becasue teachers were so well-respected before the unions?

More so than they are today.

 

[green]

They never have, unless they were teaching high-school math, science, or English. When you walk into a first grade classroom, your calculus skills will be of little relevance.

Falling test scores reflect your line of thinking. Congrats.

 

[green]

The general public still largely believe that content and curriculum mastery is what being a teacher is about. Of course, the general public never had to hold the attention of 30 children of any age for 6 hours.

Huh. It was possible 20 years ago...not any more? What does that say about what has happened to teachers? Not much.

 

[Stoked]

Where else are concerns of the general public represented in a professional discourse? NASA is funded by your money, as well as much other scientific research. Would it make sense that the public be able to have a say in that, too? And I know you're going to say that this is your child we're talking about and that this affects you very directly, but none of that makes you an expert in the field.

It makes me the expert in regards to my child. So basically you are saying total control should be handed over to teachers? That is as pointless and counterproductive and having a purely non teacher group over teachers. The concerns and opinions of parent should be represented and to sugest otherwise is pretty extreme in my opinion.

As for NASA we do have a say. Those we elect determine how much funding, or lack there of, NASA gets. But you are right in that your NASA example is not the same thing as what we are talking about so I am not sure why you even brought it up.

 

[JimLes]

Falling test scores reflect your line of thinking. Congrats.

Yes, because high-stakes testing of students is a real reflection of how well a teacher is doing. Of course, you probably believe that content mastery is the only thing students are supposed to get out of education.

 

[Scat]

Where else are concerns of the general public represented in a professional discourse? NASA is funded by your money, as well as much other scientific research. Would it make sense that the public be able to have a say in that, too? And I know you're going to say that this is your child we're talking about and that this affects you very directly, but none of that makes you an expert in the field.

We know a lot more about our children than we do about shooting a rocket into space hence the reason we should have a greater say in our children's education.

 

[JimLes]

It makes me the expert in regards to my child.

But I teach more than just your child. I teach everyone's child. With different needs, abilities, income-levels, domestic situations, etc. How can you be an expert on what's best for everyone's child?

 

[JimLes]

We know a lot more about our children than we do about shooting a rocket into space hence the reason we should have a greater say in our children's education.

I apologize. I did not realize having a child makes you an expert on one. I suppose that makes me a car mechanic.

 

[Stoked]

The general public still largely believe that content and curriculum mastery is what being a teacher is about. Of course, the general public never had to hold the attention of 30 children of any age for 6 hours.

How do you know what that "public" has had to do? You are advocating that I turn over total control to a group of people when I (general term) no say in their standards, cirriculum, requirements... that is insane.

 

[JimLes]

How do you know what that "public" has had to do? You are advocating that I turn over total control to a group of people when I (general term) no say in their standards, cirriculum, requirements... that is insane.

You do the same with doctors. Why am I different? You trust a doctor with your life.

 

[Stoked]

I apologize. I did not realize having a child makes you an expert on one. I suppose that makes me a car mechanic.

You missed the our. Yes I know what is better for my child than any teacher does. Do I know what is best for someone elses child of course not but you know that is not the areguement being made here. None of us are advocating removing all control from teachers the way you are advocating total control.

 

[JimLes]

You missed the our. Yes I know what is better for my child than any teacher does. Do I know what is best for someone elses child of course not but you know that is not the areguement being made here. None of us are advocating removing all control from teachers the way you are advocating total control.

I'm not asking for total control, I'm asking for professional autonomy. The same one had by doctors, lawyers, accountants...hell, NBA players.

 

[Stoked]

You do the same with doctors. Why am I different? You trust a doctor with your life.

Poor example for several reasons. I have my choice of doctors. I am not mandated to one by where I live. Doctors also have a much more rigourous education to become doctors, as they should considering what they do. Doctors are not molding the future as teachers are.

Make no mistake I think teaching is a noble proffesion and one of the most crucial to any society. I am not agaisnt teachers. I think they generally are underpaid and vastly under appreciated. However they way things are is not working and the unions protecting bad teachers is insanity to me. If anything they should be the ones pushing out bad teachers and bad practices.

 

[Stoked]

I'm not asking for total control, I'm asking for professional autonomy. The same one had by doctors, lawyers, accountants...hell, NBA players.

No becasue of what your profession entails. I ahve to go for now but will willingly continue this discussion later.

Good talking to you.