poll: is Pau worth his contract the next two years (yes or no).
- Thread starter NAOS
- Start date
Not many players are worth that. But Pau is definitely not one of those. In my eyes he's a really good player but not a superstar. The Jazz aren't in a position to trade for him. I don't think he would be the missing piece to a championship. Besides, the word is the Lakers aren't looking to deal him anymore now that they have Nash.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I think Pau has two solid years in the tank. Interest in obtaining him has mostly to do with scanning next year's FA crop and, most importantly, 14's. If 14 is the better class for our needs, then Pau is a solid bridge to get there. It's also imperative the Jazz have space in 14 (or at least aren't locked into too many long term deals), because there's a high chance somebody is going to make a huge run at Favors as an RFA. Pau on the books through 14 actually ensures that we'll be protected, while still giving us a quality player in the interim.
He's really not far off from his career averages. The best players can play at a high level while their decline is noticeable. 17.4/10.4/3.6apg/4.6fpg (flops per game), excellent outside shooting, great wallpaper poses...
Pau Gasol will be worth the $20mm per more than D-Will will be over the next two seasons. Talk to me after they win the championship.
Pau Gasol will be worth the $20mm per more than D-Will will be over the next two seasons. Talk to me after they win the championship.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Overpaid really doesn't matter that much depending on circumstances. It's stupid to waste Cap Space, but stupider to lock yourself down with iffy longterm contracts. And in our case, we have Hayward/Favors decisions to make in 14, so we only want to have guys on the books past 14 that we really want.
Two years of "overpaid" Gasol is not a bad way to spend cap space under those constraints. The downside is it leaves us with 2 years of Kanter being the 4th big. But there's no telling when Kanter will be ready, so I'd happily accept that problem.
Two years of "overpaid" Gasol is not a bad way to spend cap space under those constraints. The downside is it leaves us with 2 years of Kanter being the 4th big. But there's no telling when Kanter will be ready, so I'd happily accept that problem.
BluesRocker
Banned
NAOS
Well-Known Member
But you are Dr. Poopypants when it comes to taking on salary without picks. That's a lot of $$$ and they have ZERO quality picks to give.
^ this whole thing is putting your diatribe on Marvin's ETO into strange relief.
BluesRocker
Banned
Someone neg that idiot naos
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Pau is an all star. You pay to get those. Marvin is a fringe NBA starter nobody in their right mind wants to pay 7.5 million in 2 years. You get paid for that.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
so far a 2:1 majority think he is overpaid. I think he's massively overpaid.
I'd still trade for him in a heartbeat if he didn't annihilate the summer of '13... and then likely exit Utah the year after. I just can't get excited about that.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
And as I already said, being "overpaid" isn't the issue with Gasol.
Wait, wut?
Come clean, Billy. Did you have to go this far to defend your post-Harris, pre-Marvin trade critiques of not getting more for assuming Mo Williams. (I was right there with you on that, BTW)
vslice02
Well-Known Member
If you're paying someone salaries of $19 million and then $19.3 million, he better be:
a) A bonefide franchise player - the marketable "face of the franchise"
-or-
b) A second-fiddle but a difference-maker who gives you a legitimate (not hopeful) chance at winning a championship in that window
The answer on both of those issues with Pau on the Jazz is both "no," and "doubtful."
a) A bonefide franchise player - the marketable "face of the franchise"
-or-
b) A second-fiddle but a difference-maker who gives you a legitimate (not hopeful) chance at winning a championship in that window
The answer on both of those issues with Pau on the Jazz is both "no," and "doubtful."
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Fishsticks
Banned
Crazy that anyone thinks this is a good move. Where the Jazz are as a franchise, this just does not fit.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
This is going to take too long:
IF the Jazz determined that they weren't going to get a MAX player, and didn't like the mid tier guys in the 13 class, then it's better to find a way to use the cap space (because you never want to waste it.) Not dealing for Gasol would fit with the program of having Cap Space to use in case deals presented themselves -- a viable option. But taking on Pau to fill space that KOC thought he wasn't going to use effectively would make sense if...
He really liked the 14 class. In that scenario, he's using up cap space in 12/13 and 13/14 with a better player than he could have gotten, while still leaving himself in a position of clearing 20 million in Cap Space for 14. Additionally, even overpaid Pau is going to perform relatively close to market value -- ie, it's not like he's only a 10 million dollar player.
In the context of the deals: Lakers have leverage in getting rid of Pau despite his contract because he's an all star level player. Consequently, other teams have to pony up. It's just that he doesn't fit a lot of teams because he'd be worthless to the Cavs. Not surprisingly, Minny has shown interest. They're like us -- a team with talent who could make a jump up with him.
LA and Atlanta did not have leverage. They wouldn't have gotten fair market value for Mo and Marvin if they tried. So in both cases, KOC should have gotten more than straight up salary swaps for them.
IF the Jazz determined that they weren't going to get a MAX player, and didn't like the mid tier guys in the 13 class, then it's better to find a way to use the cap space (because you never want to waste it.) Not dealing for Gasol would fit with the program of having Cap Space to use in case deals presented themselves -- a viable option. But taking on Pau to fill space that KOC thought he wasn't going to use effectively would make sense if...
He really liked the 14 class. In that scenario, he's using up cap space in 12/13 and 13/14 with a better player than he could have gotten, while still leaving himself in a position of clearing 20 million in Cap Space for 14. Additionally, even overpaid Pau is going to perform relatively close to market value -- ie, it's not like he's only a 10 million dollar player.
In the context of the deals: Lakers have leverage in getting rid of Pau despite his contract because he's an all star level player. Consequently, other teams have to pony up. It's just that he doesn't fit a lot of teams because he'd be worthless to the Cavs. Not surprisingly, Minny has shown interest. They're like us -- a team with talent who could make a jump up with him.
LA and Atlanta did not have leverage. They wouldn't have gotten fair market value for Mo and Marvin if they tried. So in both cases, KOC should have gotten more than straight up salary swaps for them.
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
Gasol isn't going anywhere. He will have a career year with Nash passing to him now.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
12-13 contracts between 7-8 million. (List not updated day by day of couse.)
Caron Butler $8,000,000
Tyrus Thomas $8,000,000
Jameer Nelson $7,600,000
Arron Afflalo $7,562,500
Marcus Thornton$7,525,000
Andres Nocioni $7,500,000
O.J. Mayo $7,390,019
Desagana Diop $7,372,200
Beno Udrih $7,372,200
Mike Conley Jr $7,305,786
Trevor Ariza $7,258,960
Marcin Gortat $7,258,960
Ron Artest $7,258,960
Blake Griffin $7,226,892
Travis Outlaw $7,000,000
Griffin is on rookie contract. Looks like Williams fits right in with that group as a 10/5 player in 28 minutes. Conley is 12.5/6.5. Gortat's value may lessen with Nash's departure. Seems like Marvin Williams is paid pretty much what he's worth.
Fishsticks
Banned
Don't tell that to ole billy! He not hear a word of this foolery. Marvin williams is da scrubbbbzzzz