my last dumb phone

[SaltyDawg]

The Surface Pro comes out in a few months. Thus, nobody knows anything about its performance. The Surface RT Office is great, but the tablet itself is incapable of serious Office work as it is too slow and weak. A friend of mine who reviews hardware for a living invited me to play around with the Surface RT, and it was really cool. It felt sturdy, and the software is really pretty. But the app store was virtually empty, and the performance sucked on anything but the basic tablet tasks you'd expect. I tried to play a flash video in IE 10, and I gave up after 6 minutes of stuttering and freezing. It took 8 full seconds for the Kindle App to load. You expect me to compile data bases or do regression analyses on that? Come on.

I'm a big fan of technology, and I believe mobile is the future, for sure. But currently, anyone with serious computing needs simply cannot give up having access to a real PC.

The surface pro is not out yet, but that does not mean nobody knows anything about it.

On the RT, supposedly the units the reviewers had did not have the latest software. MS wanted the reviews on time, so they did not wait for the update. Supposedly there is more stuff in the app store now (I don't have one yet so I can't confirm).

And if you want to get technical about it, I bet I could do everything I normally do on my phone on that RT, plus compile the database you speak of, a lot faster than you could do everything I normally do plus compile that same database on a desktop.

You're focusing in on the ONE thing a desktop might do faster, and ignoring the 1000 things the phone does way faster.

 

[Siro]

The surface pro is not out yet, but that does not mean nobody knows anything about it.

On the RT, supposedly the units the reviewers had did not have the latest software. MS wanted the reviews on time, so they did not wait for the update. Supposedly there is more stuff in the app store now (I don't have one yet so I can't confirm).

And if you want to get technical about it, I bet I could do everything I normally do on my phone on that RT, plus compile the database you speak of, a lot faster than you could do everything I normally do plus compile that same database on a desktop.

You're focusing in on the ONE thing a desktop might do faster, and ignoring the 1000 things the phone does way faster.

I didn't say nobody knew anything about the Surface Pro. I said nobody knows how it performs. There is no magic in hardware. You either use ARM to achieve superior battery life for less performance, or x86 for the opposite. I don't understand what you're trying to dispute and on what basis. This is like arguing water is not important for life because you personally can live on diet Fanta.

Can you give me example of computing tasks that the phone does better? Of course the phone is better for GPS navigation or Augmented Reality overlays. Nobody carries a desktop tower around with them. Each type of device has its own uses. But can you give me an application where a phone magically does better despite far FAR less powerful components?

 

[SaltyDawg]

That's simply incorrect. I am talking about gaming. Not just an interactive entertainment applications. I saw a few ARM games, like Final Fantasy port than was originally on the Nintendo DS. But these are rare. The so called games you can get in the App Store or Google Play are comparable to flash games or the ones that come for free with any OS.

So your argument is no longer "there aren't many games on ARM" (which implies there is little development on the platform) to "there aren't many games that I like" which is totally different.

I think even you will have to admit that most development has left the x86 platform and moved to the ARM platform.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I didn't say nobody knew anything about the Surface Pro. I said nobody knows how it performs. There is no magic in hardware. You either use ARM to achieve superior battery life for less performance, or x86 for the opposite. I don't understand what you're trying to dispute and on what basis. This is like arguing water is not important for life because you personally can live on diet Fanta.

Can you give me example of computing tasks that the phone does better? Of course the phone is better for GPS navigation or Augmented Reality overlays. Nobody carries a desktop tower around with them. Each type of device has its own uses. But can you give me an application where a phone magically does better despite far FAR less powerful components?

I can give plenty of examples..

Opening email client is much faster on the phone than computer. Opening browser on the phone is much faster than on the computer. Opening word processing app on the phone is much faster than on the computer.

Heck, EVERYTHING you open on the phone is much faster than on the computer.

You keep arguing raw specs. I'm arguing real world performance.

And I don't care if the computer app is bloated but should theoretically be faster if it wasn't so bloated and inefficient. I'm not interested in excuses for why the computer isn't as fast as it theoretically could possibly be. I'm just saying the phone is faster.

 

[Siro]

I can give plenty of examples..

Opening email client is much faster on the phone than computer. Opening browser on the phone is much faster than on the computer. Opening word processing app on the phone is much faster than on the computer.

Heck, EVERYTHING you open on the phone is much faster than on the computer.

You keep arguing raw specs. I'm arguing real world performance.

And I don't care if the computer app is bloated but should theoretically be faster if it wasn't so bloated and inefficient. I'm not interested in excuses for why the computer isn't as fast as it theoretically could possibly be. I'm just saying the phone is faster.

Opening a browser is not faster, nor is using it. I can open endless tabs on a desktop, and have videos streaming, flash running, html 5 webpages, and everything in between, while I do some photoshop work. On my Asus Transformer tablet, I can open 2 or 3 tabs as long as I keep to very light websites. I already explained the Office situation and I won't get into it again.

All you're saying is that with your extremely limited range of uses that take advantage of a tiny sliver of what computers offer, you find smartphones sufficient. I believe you. And given the lack of growth in PC sales, a lot of people seem to find mobile devices enough for their needs. But you're mistaking your own needs with objective reality. In real life, a phone or a tablet do not compare to the power and utility of a desktop computer. We can't play real games, we can't do any serious audio or video editing, we can't do heavy photo manipulation, we can't perform renderings or simulations, we can't manage databases, we can't run professional design software, and so on and so forth.

This is as obvious as things get really. I'm sure I have more experience than you in both realms. I pretty much automated my entire house using Arduino boards, and I control everything through my mobile devices. I even have a quadcopter and a romo robot that I use with my cell phone for remote viewing. If you really don't think a desktop is superior for productivity, then you either don't know what you're talking about, or you like to argue for argument's sake.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Opening a browser is not faster, nor is using it. I can open endless tabs on a desktop, and have videos streaming, flash running, html 5 webpages, and everything in between, while I do some photoshop work. On my Asus Transformer tablet, I can open 2 or 3 tabs as long as I keep to very light websites. I already explained the Office situation and I won't get into it again.

All you're saying is that with your extremely limited range of uses that take advantage of a tiny sliver of what computers offer, you find smartphones sufficient. I believe you. And given the lack of growth in PC sales, a lot of people seem to find mobile devices enough for their needs. But you're mistaking your own needs with objective reality. In real life, a phone or a tablet do not compare to the power and utility of a desktop computer. We can't play real games, we can't do any serious audio or video editing, we can't do heavy photo manipulation, we can't perform renderings or simulations, we can't manage databases, we can't run professional design software, and so on and so forth.

This is as obvious as things get really. I'm sure I have more experience than you in both realms. I pretty much automated my entire house using Arduino boards, and I control everything through my mobile devices. I even have a quadcopter and a romo robot that I use with my cell phone for remote viewing. If you really don't think a desktop is superior for productivity, then you either don't know what you're talking about, or you like to argue for argument's sake.

Again, you're arguing specs here and not actual speed.

I don't care how many tabs you can have open on your desktop. I will bet you whatever you want that if I open Chrome on my phone at the same time you open it on your computer, mine will open faster, and it won't even be close. Like I said, a motorhome has way more power than a camaro, doesn't mean it's faster.

By the way, the first time I automated my house was about 12 years ago using x10 components and I coded my own controlling software because theirs sucked.

 

[Siro]

Again, you're arguing specs here and not actual speed.

I don't care how many tabs you can have open on your desktop. I will bet you whatever you want that if I open Chrome on my phone at the same time you open it on your computer, mine will open faster, and it won't even be close. Like I said, a motorhome has way more power than a camaro, doesn't mean it's faster.

By the way, the first time I automated my house was about 12 years ago using x10 components and I coded my own controlling software because theirs sucked.

Holy ****. It's faster because it's doing a lot less. What's so hard to understand? A desktop can be ten times faster if it was coded with "applications that can barely do anything" philosophy. So yes, it is indeed faster to use cloud based MS Word since all it allows you to do is edit a few words here and there. The real version of Word gives you comparably infinite capabilities, which makes it clunkier. Is that concept really difficult to understand? Or can you really not get past "but if one is faster..." simple mindedness?

I have Fifa 2012 on my computer. It required something like 20 GB to install, and it's peak memory usage was about 1.1GB and around 40% of my i7 CPU. Those requirements for that one game is more than the total computing power my best mobile device is capable of. For my desktop, it's pretty trivial. In fact, I can run that game PLUS every single application I have across all my mobile devices at once. My tablets would simply melt if I got this game anywhere in their vicinity. And I also have Fifa on my phone. It's a really nice little game with 1998 graphics and a rudimentary engine that is simpler than games I owned on the Gameboy as a kid. And guess what, it runs faster! What a ****ing revelation!

 

[One Brow]

Yes, you can do those types of spreadsheets on a smartphone. The new MS office is web based, and it comes free on the new MS smartphones (running Windows 8).

You can't put PHI (personal health information) on the web unencrypted, and you can't do data manipulaitons on encrypted data without unencrypting it first. If the phone can't do it internally, it can't do it.

Why would I load it down with the same weight if I can do all the same things, faster, with the less weight?

You can't cook your breakfast in the Camaro. My whole point is that the only reason the smart phones seem as fast is that they can't pull a full load.

It gets me to my destination faster,

Only those destinations for which shortcuts exist.

Most "4G" networks average around 8 to 20 meg downloads (comparable to an average home broadband connection).

So, slower than the fast connections. That makes sense.

Yes, if you find yourself in a situation where it took 20 minutes to accomplish a simple task, I'd say that is pretty slow. Probably still faster than going home and booting up your desktop though.

So, you should prbably ditch your slow smart phone for one of the fast dumbphones, like I have.

... does your phone do a video call so you can see the surroundings?

I don't know. If my kids says he's studying with friends, I accept him at his word.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Holy ****. It's faster because it's doing a lot less. What's so hard to understand? A desktop can be ten times faster if it was coded with "applications that can barely do anything" philosophy. So yes, it is indeed faster to use cloud based MS Word since all it allows you to do is edit a few words here and there. The real version of Word gives you comparably infinite capabilities, which makes it clunkier. Is that concept really difficult to understand? Or can you really not get past "but if one is faster..." simple mindedness?

I have Fifa 2012 on my computer. It required something like 20 GB to install, and it's peak memory usage was about 1.1GB and around 40% of my i7 CPU. Those requirements for that one game is more than the total computing power my best mobile device is capable of. For my desktop, it's pretty trivial. In fact, I can run that game PLUS every single application I have across all my mobile devices at once. My tablets would simply melt if I got this game anywhere in their vicinity. And I also have Fifa on my phone. It's a really nice little game with 1998 graphics and a rudimentary engine that is simpler than games I owned on the Gameboy as a kid. And guess what, it runs faster! What a ****ing revelation!

Again, as I said, I'm not interested in hearing excuses for why the computer is slower, or how it could theoretically be faster if the apps weren't bloated and inefficient.

I stated that the phone is faster, and it is.
You came in arguing power. Great. Too bad nobody ever said the phone's processing power was theoretically faster. The claim was, and is, the phone accomplishes its tasks much faster than a computer accomplishes those same tasks. And in addition to that, there are plenty of things a phone can do that a computer can't (like take a 12 megapixel picture).

You can theoretically run 100 apps at the same time. Great. Open one of them faster than your phone can and then you'll have a valid argument. Until then, it's not at all relevant to my argument.

 

[SaltyDawg]

SaltyDawg: I can run a 4.2 forty.
SiroMar: I run it in 12.8, but I'm wearing a backpack full of gear so I'm faster!

 

[Gameface]

Again, as I said, I'm not interested in hearing excuses for why the computer is slower, or how it could theoretically be faster if the apps weren't bloated and inefficient.

I stated that the phone is faster, and it is.
You came in arguing power. Great. Too bad nobody ever said the phone's processing power was theoretically faster. The claim was, and is, the phone accomplishes its tasks much faster than a computer accomplishes those same tasks. And in addition to that, there are plenty of things a phone can do that a computer can't (like take a 12 megapixel picture).

You can theoretically run 100 apps at the same time. Great. Open one of them faster than your phone can and then you'll have a valid argument. Until then, it's not at all relevant to my argument.

I bet your phone isn't anywhere near as fast as the computer I'm using right now. From hitting the power button and having windows fully loaded and ready to go in about 25s to opening chrome (lol). You just aren't using the right PC. You're comparing the latest and greatest smart phone to crappy off the shelf PCs. Try comparing how fast your phone is to a legit gaming rig.

 

[Siro]

I bet your phone isn't anywhere near as fast as the computer I'm using right now. From hitting the power button and having windows fully loaded and ready to go in about 25s to opening chrome (lol). You just aren't using the right PC. You're comparing the latest and greatest smart phone to crappy off the shelf PCs. Try comparing how fast your phone is to a legit gaming rig.

But can your games run as smoothly as my Angry Birds? No. You lose, stupid.

 

[Siro]

SaltyDawg: I can run a 4.2 forty.
SiroMar: I run it in 12.8, but I'm wearing a backpack full of gear so I'm faster!

I know right! There was this architect who's like "it takes me 3 months to design a skyscraper". I laughed so hard at his inferiority. I can design a little lego house in 5 minutes!

It's nice to see The Blackswordsman and PealrWatson have some company on these forums.

 

[SaltyDawg]

You can't put PHI (personal health information) on the web unencrypted, and you can't do data manipulaitons on encrypted data without unencrypting it first. If the phone can't do it internally, it can't do it.

So I guess if you're a healthcare worker who creates 70,000 row spreadsheets (or whatever you said) and you work from home, you need a computer. Is that the case with you? Or are you arguing just to argue?

You can't cook your breakfast in the Camaro. My whole point is that the only reason the smart phones seem as fast is that they can't pull a full load.

They pull a good enough load for most people. Yeah, you can find some obscure use that doesn't apply to most people (like your 70,000 row medical spreadsheet, or top secret government clearance). But we both know if you take all the times that comes up, it will be far outweighed by the times your phone is faster and more useful than a computer.

Only those destinations for which shortcuts exist.

Well then you can consider a smartphone to be a teleportation device then, lol.

So, slower than the fast connections. That makes sense.

It actually makes perfect sense if you think about it. Not very many websites are uploading that fast. Home connections are designed to be shared with many devices. You get 3 computers, a tv streaming Netflix, and a PlayStation all using the internet at the same time, and you need a faster connection. You get one computer as the only device, and web pages won't load any faster on the fastest connection than they did on the mid tier connection (unless you have many simultaneous downloads, which basically acts like many people sharing the connection). The phone gets the whole connection, so the performance is good.

So, you should prbably ditch your slow smart phone for one of the fast dumbphones, like I have.

Not accurate. You listed one scenario. I'm pretty sure it would be easily outweighed by the countless other scenarios where the smartphone is the faster option.

I don't know. If my kids says he's studying with friends, I accept him at his word.

Famous last words, lol.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I bet your phone isn't anywhere near as fast as the computer I'm using right now. From hitting the power button and having windows fully loaded and ready to go in about 25s to opening chrome (lol). You just aren't using the right PC. You're comparing the latest and greatest smart phone to crappy off the shelf PCs. Try comparing how fast your phone is to a legit gaming rig.

No man, lol, you're wrong, seriously. Watch when you get your new phone.

You have the SaltyDawg guarantee, if you hit chrome on your phone at the same time you click chrome on your gaming rig, the phone will be faster.

The new quad core phones with 2 gigs of RAM have unmatched speed.

Your gaming rig might be faster than an old smartphone though. That's possible. Definitely not faster than the latest and greatest.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I know right! There was this architect who's like "it takes me 3 months to design a skyscraper". I laughed so hard at his inferiority. I can design a little lego house in 5 minutes!

It's nice to see The Blackswordsman and PealrWatson have some company on these forums.

And then when he built the Lego you were still faster (just like the phone is when opening chrome/email client/any app you want).

 

[One Brow]

So I guess if you're a healthcare worker who creates 70,000 row spreadsheets (or whatever you said) and you work from home, you need a computer. Is that the case with you? Or are you arguing just to argue?

Actually, yes. I work with a local hospital, and their IT department also serves a local group of about 30 health clinics with some 28,000 monthly encounters Working with spreadsheets or access databases that are processing 50,000 to 200,000 rows is something I do everyday.

They pull a good enough load for most people.

Great. We agree they are not going to replace PCs entirely, then.

Yeah, you can find some obscure use that doesn't apply to most people (like your 70,000 row medical spreadsheet, or top secret government clearance).

I'm glad you acknowledge smartphones won't be replacing PCs for every task.

All of my last four jobs have been in either defense (requiring Secret clearance) or the health care industry. It's my everyday. Besides that, any company doing cutting edge research, unique designs, or patent-protected manufacturing will not want to put proprietary data in the cloud. By it's nature, the cloud will have no firewalls, as a computing power used by GM one minute might be given to Chrysler the next. it is inherently unsecure.

But we both know if you take all the times that comes up, it will be far outweighed by the times your phone is faster and more useful than a computer.

I'm glad you acknowledge smartphones won't be replacing PCs for every task.

Since it takes you 20 minutes to make a phone call, I'm not impressed with your speed.

Not accurate. You listed one scenario.

Just like you rely on one scenario for saying smartphones are faster than PCs.

As for your assessment of my children and how much I can rely on what they say, I'll just say that it's based on complete ignorance.

 

[Siro]

****, I just remembered I'm expected to submit a 5 thousand word report on a new process. I better start tapping that touch screen.

 

[One Brow]

****, I just remembered I'm expected to submit a 5 thousand word report on a new process. I better start tapping that touch screen.

Thank goodness you've the smart phone to handled animating a 10ft movie screen at the level of the pixel. It's so fast!

 

[SaltyDawg]

Actually, yes. I work with a local hospital, and their IT department also serves a local group of about 30 health clinics with some 28,000 monthly encounters Working with spreadsheets or access databases that are processing 50,000 to 200,000 rows is something I do everyday.

I was under the impression you were a teacher, possibly a professor? Was I mistaken?

Great. We agree they are not going to replace PCs entirely, then.

Yes, we agree on that. I never expected someone's phone to be a corporate application server, or web server, for example.

I'm glad you acknowledge smartphones won't be replacing PCs for every task.

Yes, that was never in doubt. To clarify, my point was that YOU personally, would appreciate the smartphone once you got rid of your dumbphone. And I still maintain that opinion. I also still think that even if you have one or 2 things you do on your computer that you can't do on your phone, once you add everything up, there will be way more things the smartphone does faster than the computer than vice versa.

All of my last four jobs have been in either defense (requiring Secret clearance) or the health care industry. It's my everyday. Besides that, any company doing cutting edge research, unique designs, or patent-protected manufacturing will not want to put proprietary data in the cloud. By it's nature, the cloud will have no firewalls, as a computing power used by GM one minute might be given to Chrysler the next. it is inherently unsecure.

Again, I thought you were a teacher. If I was wrong about that, my apologies. As for your corporate cloud statement, you couldn't be further off. My job (at fortune 100 company) has many employees who actually work from home over a VPN. This is quite common with any large company these days. There is plenty of cloud storage involved with that, and even processing on the company servers via the cloud. There are plenty of firewalls involved. I won't go into specifics about what security measures are in place, but I will say it hasn't ever been compromised. And again, this is common at any large company, and many small companies.

I'm glad you acknowledge smartphones won't be replacing PCs for every task.

I don't know what ever gave you any other idea. I know this website won't be hosted on a phone anytime soon. That certainly isn't a good reason to hold onto an antiquated dumbphone though.

Since it takes you 20 minutes to make a phone call, I'm not impressed with your speed.

You will be after you average out the time it took me to do everything I did that day, and compare it to your average for the day.

Just like you rely on one scenario for saying smartphones are faster than PCs.

Not true. Every single app that exists on both platforms runs faster on the phone. The only time the computer runs faster is when you start heavy multitasking.

As for your assessment of my children and how much I can rely on what they say, I'll just say that it's based on complete ignorance.

Ignorance of your particular children, yes. Ignorance of children in general, not at all.