Gyp Rosetti
Banned
I'm done with this because you see what you want to see. Everyone else sees things one way. Salty sees it his. He is right. End of story.
Pathetic.
Official Utah Utes Football 2012 Thread
- Thread starter UGLI baby
- Start date
I'm done with this because you see what you want to see. Everyone else sees things one way. Salty sees it his. He is right. End of story.
Pathetic.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
So wait, are you claiming Utah is actually just as good as they were last season? Or do you actually agree with me that they got worse, but want to argue anyway because you're a douche bag?
CONAN
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't really hang my hat on that given that USC was on probation. But whatever.
I really don't see a huge difference between the Utes this season and the Utes last season. But whatever, if you want to discount talent and think Utah is on par with the rest of the Pac12 then whatever.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
You don't see a difference between Utah last season and Utah this season?
Well, for starters, Utah won a bowl game last season (against a BCS conference school) while not even finishing at .500 this season. The only team with a winning record that Utah beat this season was BYU.
Utah also had arguably the best running back in the Pac 12 last season. White was decent this season, but nowhere near as good as last season. And the receivers were all way better last season. Based on this season you'd think the only decent receiver Utah had on the roster was Jake Murphy, a tight end.
How are you judging talent when you say Utah doesn't have any?
For example, receivers... Do you think Utah has Pac 12 caliber receivers based on this season? Probably not, right? They didn't look good this season. However, those same receivers looked good last season, and even NFL caliber before that.
Where exactly do you think Utah has a lack of talent? I'd say they might be a little thin on the o line, and the qb was a freshman, but other than that, Utah has plenty of Pac 12 caliber players on the offense.
No team is perfect, there is always going to be strengths and weaknesses. I don't think you can say Utah doesn't have Pac 12 talent just because they're not starting NFL players at every position.
Even though they both sucked this year, I would not be at all surprised to see Devonte Christopher in the NFL next season, and Dres Anderson in the NFL when he leaves school. Also John White is definitely going to be in the NFL, and Jake Murphy probably will too.
If that happens, and it's not at all far fetched, that means Utah started at least 4 NFL players on offense this year. How can you say they have no talent when they might have started 4 NFL players? (I'm only talking about offense here, we all know Utah has plenty of talent on defense)
And there could be others, of course. Like Reggie Dunn, Luke Matthews, and even Travis Wilson.
I remember watching that Utah/UCLA game on tv and the announcers were saying that almost every Pac 12 school recruited Travis Wilson.
I also remember when everyone said Utah had a lack of talent against Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, and then 11 players from that Utah team went on to play in the NFL.
Similar situation here, except the offensive and defensive coordinator positions aren't as good as they were back then. The defensive coordinator is getting better, but he's still no Gary Anderson, and the offensive coordinator was downright terrible this season. Terrible to the point that even the few bright spots we had on offense last year looked terrible this year.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
This is not a valid argument even if it was accurate. (looking at records don't tell near the story) Not an accurate measure at all. But for fun let's look anyway. Last year Utah beat two teams with winnning records (sorry I'm not counting Montana deal with it). That must represent some huge gap for you but it really isn't. Going from beating 1 team over .500 to beating 2 teams over .500 really is not a big difference. And that's giving Utah an extra shot at someone in a bowl. If you just look at regular season it's identical. So really you are actually proving my point but like I said I don't consider your methods here to be valid.
Where did I say this?
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
It's a talent issue for Utah, plain and simple. Not even worth arguing. In the 2 years since leaving the MWC, Utah has not even come close to fielding a Pac 12 worthy O-line or QB. IMO, they match up pretty good everywhere else. I'm not saying they're on a level playing field at all of the other positions, but probably close enough to compete.
The thing is, if you can't put forward a Pac 12 O-line and QB, 5-and-7 is probably your ceiling. In fact, I think now that we've had 2 years to look at it, Utah's 9 win season last season was serious overachievement. The QBs that have taken meaningful snaps for Utah in the past 2 seasons are Wynn, Hayes, and Wilson. 1 was a walking M.A.S.H. unit who never had that great of an arm to begin with, one was a DII kid that was gritty, but had no business starting for Wyoming, let alone a Pac 12 school, and the other was a true freshman thrown into the fire. Add to that an O-line cobbled together due to injuries over the past 2 years and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why Utah has struggled.
Utah is fixing the QB issue, but it's not an overnight process. Having Travis Wilson coming back with starts under his belt is a step in the right direction. Utah also has 2 verbals from QB's who were sought after by other Pac 12 schools and Chase Hansen out on a mission. As these guys filter into the program, we'll finally see some stability in that area.
Recruiting capable defenders and players at the skill positions on offense doesn't seem to be the problem. Utah needs a few years of solid QB and Oline recruiting before we can even think about them being "contenders" in the Pac South. I'll be the first Ute fan to step up and admit that the transition was/is not as easy as I thought it was going to be.
The thing is, if you can't put forward a Pac 12 O-line and QB, 5-and-7 is probably your ceiling. In fact, I think now that we've had 2 years to look at it, Utah's 9 win season last season was serious overachievement. The QBs that have taken meaningful snaps for Utah in the past 2 seasons are Wynn, Hayes, and Wilson. 1 was a walking M.A.S.H. unit who never had that great of an arm to begin with, one was a DII kid that was gritty, but had no business starting for Wyoming, let alone a Pac 12 school, and the other was a true freshman thrown into the fire. Add to that an O-line cobbled together due to injuries over the past 2 years and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why Utah has struggled.
Utah is fixing the QB issue, but it's not an overnight process. Having Travis Wilson coming back with starts under his belt is a step in the right direction. Utah also has 2 verbals from QB's who were sought after by other Pac 12 schools and Chase Hansen out on a mission. As these guys filter into the program, we'll finally see some stability in that area.
Recruiting capable defenders and players at the skill positions on offense doesn't seem to be the problem. Utah needs a few years of solid QB and Oline recruiting before we can even think about them being "contenders" in the Pac South. I'll be the first Ute fan to step up and admit that the transition was/is not as easy as I thought it was going to be.
I do think Utah should not be concerned in the talent area other than their O line ( could be more injury than talent), and especially QB.
You have a sucky QB and it doesn't matter about the rest.
Same goes for BYU.
BYU has taken a few steps forward in regards to recruiting players with talent on both sides of the ball, but either through sucky recruiting or bad QB management both teams have crap for QB's on the field.
Tough to say where a school is compared to others when the number one position is a mess and affects all of the others.
Anywho, I thought the season was over?
Disappointment for both teams. No real need to bash each other now.
Good luck in the off season and recruiting for both teams. Glad BYU gets a few extra practices and meaningless game in for reps, wish they had a QB of the future they could give those reps to.
You have a sucky QB and it doesn't matter about the rest.
Same goes for BYU.
BYU has taken a few steps forward in regards to recruiting players with talent on both sides of the ball, but either through sucky recruiting or bad QB management both teams have crap for QB's on the field.
Tough to say where a school is compared to others when the number one position is a mess and affects all of the others.
Anywho, I thought the season was over?
Disappointment for both teams. No real need to bash each other now.
Good luck in the off season and recruiting for both teams. Glad BYU gets a few extra practices and meaningless game in for reps, wish they had a QB of the future they could give those reps to.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
If Utah would have lost to Montana State it would have counted as a loss, so it should definitely count as a win after they beat them.
Even so, if you don't even count the Montana State win, Utah still beat 4 other teams that went on to play in bowl games last season, including one if the teams in the Pac 12 championship game. This season, they only beat 1 team that is going to a bowl game (BYU). And that is playing an almost identical schedule as last season.
Huge step backwards, no other way to describe it.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
I agree with almost everything you said, except for 1 thing...
If the offensive line was as bad as you say, John White wouldn't be headed to the NFL.
I agree the o line is a little thin. I don't think it's bad enough to justify a losing record though.
Same thing with the qbs. Hays and Wynn sucked, but Wilson is pretty good. He may not be the best qb in the conference, but he is not bad enough to justify a losing record. Especially on a team that has one of the best running backs and defenses in the conference.
Hartsock
Banned
So now you are fighting to say that Utah is worse than these BYU fans think?
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Actually the post you quoted is from me responding to a fellow Ute fan.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Salty changing his argument. What a surprise. You really are showing how desperate you are here.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
I didn't change anything. I just didn't accept your splitting hairs as valid, and showed why it isn't valid. My argument was, and still is, Utah took a step backwards from last year to this year. And if that is true (which it is) then Utah's troubles can't dining be written off as shock from adjusting to the new conference. If it was simply a problem adjusting to the new conference, then Utah would have struggled last season and got a little better this season, not the other way around.
A quality O line will open holes for the backs and provide QB protection. You have to do both.
Utah's O line is adequate for the former (plus, White is really good at exploiting even small gaps), but they seem to struggle with the latter. A top tier QB can help compensate, but that's the catch - you have to have a top tier QB.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
This debate is getting bogged down in semantics. The bottom line is still this: When Utah finally has Pac 12 quality QB's, and Pac 12 talent and depth at all the O line spots, they will compete at a quality level. Until that day comes, they will struggle.
fatchipper
Well-Known Member
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Whatever, Dude. I blasted your .500 argument totally out of the water and so you switched to something about bowl games.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
There's a special place in heaven for that teacher.