orangello
Well-Known Member
Yep. There is some truth to that but I don't think that it explains the whole thing.
The potential of our Favors-Kanter frontcourt? A couple of questions
- Thread starter Purch
- Start date
Yep. There is some truth to that but I don't think that it explains the whole thing.
orangello
Well-Known Member
Maybe not immediately, but within a year I bet it would.
orangello
Well-Known Member
I think that it does.
There's always trade value to consider. KOC can't give up cards by benching Paul or Jefferson. He needs to act like he wants to make the playoffs at all costs, which includes a role for both these guys. GM's will have to pay more if these guys are perceived as less getable.
orangello
Well-Known Member
This.
I've listened to the apologists on here talk about our offense without Apathetic Jefferson, and he has played brilliantly offensively in just enough games to accept the fool's gold. He defensive rebounds very well, he is a superstar teammate, and he is an ideal player to have on the team with respect to his conduct off the court. However, he is not even an efficient offensive player, and you will never (here me), never, even make the sixth seed with Jefferson as your main offensive player. You will also never make it out of the first round, ever, when he plays more than 30 minutes a game. His offensive is hit or miss, but his defense is disgraceful. He has no defensive pride and leads by example with his apathetic defensive play, letting guys drive right down the middle for easy baskets, just watching. The poisonous effect of this mindset is the most dangerous aspect of his play. You have to hold people accountable, and when your main players are the biggest offenders, you're in a bad spot. Not to put all of the blame on Al since I want Foye gone yesterday and possibly Mo as well. The both of them combined are, in the words of Kevin Pelton, "a historically bad rebounding backcourt."
By keeping Al you hamper any growth that the young bigs might have, and it's not a matter of tanking, but there will be some growing pains, and the offense cannot run through them necessarily, although Kanter may turn out to be a very good offensive player and has held his own particularly after, get this, he started. When Ty's chewing his *** out for every little thing he does, but then turns the other cheek when the Vets look like the Washington Generals on defense, it's bound to mess with you a bit. In short, I am for trading A.J. this season, even though I like the guy a lot.
As stated above, you also have to consider how the younglings are going to think about the Jazz when contracts come around. If these guys are the future, they need to start acting like it. I can't take another Millsap, AJ frontcourt, because I'm sick of the conservative middling tendencies of the Jazz brass.
By keeping Al you hamper any growth that the young bigs might have, and it's not a matter of tanking, but there will be some growing pains, and the offense cannot run through them necessarily, although Kanter may turn out to be a very good offensive player and has held his own particularly after, get this, he started. When Ty's chewing his *** out for every little thing he does, but then turns the other cheek when the Vets look like the Washington Generals on defense, it's bound to mess with you a bit. In short, I am for trading A.J. this season, even though I like the guy a lot.
As stated above, you also have to consider how the younglings are going to think about the Jazz when contracts come around. If these guys are the future, they need to start acting like it. I can't take another Millsap, AJ frontcourt, because I'm sick of the conservative middling tendencies of the Jazz brass.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
If this was last year I'd agree with you, but both Favors and Kanter are better players this year. At some point you need to give them more responsiblity on offense and defense. It's hard to stay consistent with inconsistent minutes. It seems to me that whenever Kanter or Favors start they seem to step up.
What I'm trying to say is at some point they need the opertunity to step up and become the focal point to this team.
I'm not sure why your so worried about burning Sap and Al's bridges? No one thinks Sap and Al will be back next year, and that is the biggest flaw in your argument, Kanter and Favors need to be made ready to handle the full load for next year and beyond. In the meantime, we have other capable offensive players.
1. With Sap and Al gone, we can put Hayward in the starting lineup, and he just might develop into the player we want and think he can be.
2. This allows us to become a more pick'n roll team, which can be run by both Mo and Hayward. Which will lead to an overall better run offense, with better shot selection then having to watch the pg's just dump it into Al and Sap and watch them shoot fadeaways and Al's stupid push shot that misses more then it goes in.
3. We can better utilize guys like Foye and Marvin. Remember when the jazz used to run plays to get open looks for Memo from threes. Most of the threes They take now are with hands in their faces, and we are still making them at a good clip. Just think if those two had more open looks.
4. This one is simple, with Al and Sap gon our defensive rating probably goes through the roof. More defense = more fast breaking and easy shots. We don't get a lot of that with Sap and Al
Like I said in my other post... Addition by subtraction.
Any questions?
I do think we would see some fall off in froncourt scoring but it will not be that dramatic. I also think it will be mostly temporary. Kanter went up against Howard and did just fine in LA.
Yes they do and to sugest otherwise is foolish. They simply come to a different conclussion than you. Heaven forbid.
For me Jefferson is a scoring stud. One of the best big men with his back to the basket in the world. However watching people fly right by him when all he does is watch has soured me on him. Do I expect Al to catch them all or stop them from scoring? No, but I demand that he try.
Hell for that kind of money I can play for the jazz, try my *** off and still give you the L.
Hell for that kind of money I can play for the jazz, try my *** off and still give you the L.
Excellent job setting up your own straw man and burning it down. You should claim victory over these imaginary Jefferson Apologists.
Purch
Active Member
Interesting. Another question, if there's no Millsap and Al to take minutes away from Favors and Kanter, do you still think this team needs a different coach to maximize their talents?
On a side note ( I was saying halfway though last season to see Jeff and Sap traded so Favors and Kanter can start).
On a side note ( I was saying halfway though last season to see Jeff and Sap traded so Favors and Kanter can start).
Does Corbin ignore the stats, or just want to outscore other teams?
What's that? I couldn't hear you with all of that straw in your mouth.
Us JFers chase breakfast habaneros with goldschlager and Tabasco sauce. What's a little burning straw?
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Your contention that the offense wouldn't miss AJ would be stronger if placed on its own platform.
orangello
Well-Known Member
This is still debatable. I want to say that Corbin will adjust the system for the personnel but I'm starting to think that is not going to happen.
Truth is, many of us waffle on Al because of his occasionally wonderful offensive displays. My point is not that the offense would instantly get better but that overall we would be better off. The Jazz have had a tendency to let contracts expire and let the player walk, which I don't want them to do this year. Our young bigs are far from perfect, and there would be some painful games (but there are those already). Since Corbin is too craven to pull his vet players from the game for time and time again not even competing on the defensive end, I want A.J. to bring us at least something back. I'm done with my waffling.
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Litany
Well-Known Member
I don't think the jazz will make any moves. They will let them expire.
If they re-sign Al i will be taking a break from the Jazz until his contract expires. I hope this doesn't happen.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
I have no problem with this. Just means we have extra money to fill whatever we need at that time.
pickledXgrandma
Well-Known Member
You started posting more recently and you need to stop. Please fall back into obscurity.