Favors in the playoffs

[fishonjazz]

Favors has started about ten games in his career. How many times did he foul it of those.

He is rotting. In his third year in the league is still right at his career mpg of 21. Does his role increase with good play? Nope. He gets the same minutes every night. Meanwhile other teams are playing their lottery picks and they are growing while the Jazz piss theirs off and let them rot.

We traded our all star for essentially him. Wtf is this team doing. He is in his third year. 21 mpg is inexcusable and unacceptable.

If I'm him i take the qualifying offer from the Jazz to play 1 year. Play careful or have a "nagging injury" keep me out a lot of the year and leave this team and sign with a team that won't waste me away behind mediocre vets.

I'm pissed right now and have been this whole season tbh. In case nobody noticed.

Awesome post.... I noticed this the other day as well, that his minutes have gone up by 1 from last year to this year.... retarded.

 

[fishonjazz]

It was crazy to see Burks getting time in the playoffs. Wow.

The more we hold these young guns back the worse off we are. It's time to unleash the beasts, and enjoy the ups and downs that will come!

This! sigh, im tired of waiting..... We have been waiting long enough.

 

[fishonjazz]

People forget the odds of the draft.

Only picks 1 and 2, (sometimes 3) have a decent rate of turning out Stars.
3 4 5 aren't stars, but usually turn out starters.
5-14, there are more busts then NBA players.
14-20 are generally busts too. Worst range to pick
20-60 have an okay chance of turning out a role player. High chance of bust.

Link? tony parker, manu ginobli, paul millsap, mo williams, paul pierce, steph curry, david lee, dwayne wade, kobe bryant, chris paul, damien lillard...all these players go against what you posted and i came up with this list in only about 10 seconds off the top of my head.
Im sure if i went through nba rosters i could find many more examples.
You are just pulling **** out of your ***.

The fact is that stars come from all different draft postitions and i could argue that there are plenty of busts at the 1 and 2 picks (greg oden, michael olowakandi, darko milicic)
But you know what the one thing pretty much every allstar caliber player has in common is?... They all get lots of playing time very early in thier carreers.
Look at the all stars in this league right now and tell me which ones sat on the bench for the first 3 years of thier carreer.

 

[Revolution 9]

This! sigh, im tired of waiting..... We have been waiting long enough.

It's amazing how many of us want to the Jazz to turn the team over to the youth. I'd say even a slight majority want to see Burks get some PT,
and Foye less. I think my solution of Foye playing the backup 1 to free up Burks minutes is the best way.

Favors and Kanter need more minutes. Hayward is the only young gun I'm fine with his playing time right now.

 

[LunaticWolf]

Link? tony parker, manu ginobli, paul millsap, mo williams, paul pierce, steph curry, david lee, dwayne wade, kobe bryant, chris paul, damien lillard...all these players go against what you posted and i came up with this list in only about 10 seconds off the top of my head.
Im sure if i went through nba rosters i could find many more examples.
You are just pulling **** out of your ***.

The fact is that stars come from all different draft postitions and i could argue that there are plenty of busts at the 1 and 2 picks (greg oden, michael olowakandi, darko milicic)
But you know what the one thing pretty much every allstar caliber player has in common is?... They all get lots of playing time very early in thier carreers.
Look at the all stars in this league right now and tell me which ones sat on the bench for the first 3 years of thier carreer.

And I can come up with a list 10x the size you listed of players that busted. Its called ODDS for a reason. There are gems, but the chance that you land them is slim.

 

[franklin]

This! sigh, im tired of waiting..... We have been waiting long enough.

You poor thang.

CoTy & KOC have a plan that's coming along nicely.

 

[fishonjazz]

And I can come up with a list 10x the size you listed of players that busted. Its called ODDS for a reason. There are gems, but the chance that you land them is slim.

exactly, thank you for proving my point.... point being that where a player is taken in the draft has no relevance to this discussion.

You know what does have relevance to this discussion though?...... Almost every allstar in this league played major minutes in thier first 3 years.
Coincedence? I think not.
If the jazz had played favors major minutes since the d will trade then i would guess that favors would be averaging something like 16 pts 12 rebounds and 2.5 blocks per game which would make him well on his way to being an allstar.
What do the jazz need right now more than anything? A star.

 

[fishonjazz]

You poor thang.

CoTy & KOC have a plan that's coming along nicely.

I hope you are right.

 

[franklin]

I hope you are right.

You realize KOC turned down Sam Presti's offer for James Harden, right? What do you think Presti asked for? Why did KOC decline if Favors and Kanter are not the future of the team?

Bottom line is the Jazz are not looking to make a serious run with Jefferson and Millsap, and are trying to bring Favors and Kanter along at a comfortable level while attempting to get something back for their two expiring bigs. CoTy has to play winning ball & cannot destroy the market value of these two by benching them. Not only would that destroy the locker room and winning culture, but it would send a message to the market that these guys can be had easier than Raja Bell.

It's a delicate situation that O'Connor and Corbin are handling beautifully. One way or another, next season will look much different.

 

[LunaticWolf]

exactly, thank you for proving my point.... point being that where a player is taken in the draft has no relevance to this discussion.

You know what does have relevance to this discussion though?...... Almost every allstar in this league played major minutes in thier first 3 years.
Coincedence? I think not.
If the jazz had played favors major minutes since the d will trade then i would guess that favors would be averaging something like 16 pts 12 rebounds and 2.5 blocks per game which would make him well on his way to being an allstar.
What do the jazz need right now more than anything? A star.

Well, we better get Beasley, Flynn, Jennings, Tyreke, Jianlian, Lopez. With all those minutes those guys played, they are stars!

It doesn't work that way. Favors was one of the rawest offensive players to enter the NBA in the last 5 or so years.
Enes Kanter didn't play a single game in college.
Alec Burks was the scoring leader for a sub-par school, and came in with questionable range and defense.
Gordon Hayward, good at everything, master of nothing.

Are those things you said about LeBron, CP3, Durant, Blake, or any other star coming into the league?

Stars don't have question marks.

 

[orangello]

You realize KOC turned down Sam Presti's offer for James Harden, right? What do you think Presti asked for? Why did KOC decline if Favors and Kanter are not the future of the team?

Bottom line is the Jazz are not looking to make a serious run with Jefferson and Millsap, and are trying to bring Favors and Kanter along at a comfortable level while attempting to get something back for their two expiring bigs. CoTy has to play winning ball & cannot destroy the market value of these two by benching them. Not only would that destroy the locker room and winning culture, but it would send a message to the market that these guys can be had easier than Raja Bell.

It's a delicate situation that O'Connor and Corbin are handling beautifully. One way or another, next season will look much different.

Solid post. The best rebuttal I have heard from anyone on this issue. Good work Frank.

 

[Litany]

You poor thang.

CoTy & KOC have a plan that's coming along nicely.

What value does an expiring big like Sap or Al have?

What trades make sense. Can you come up with a few scenarios that make sense for the other team and our team?

I don't see how either of them have any value. The Jazz waited to long and teams will just wait in the offseason instead of giving up draft picks or young players for them.

The only teams that might want Al or Paul are teams over the cap and those teams probably have crap to offer us.

I'm really curious if you have some trades in mind. I'd like to see them.

 

[orangello]

Solid post. The best rebuttal I have heard from anyone on this issue. Good work Frank.

Maybe rebuttal isn't the right word. The right word is explanation.

 

[Litany]

You realize KOC turned down Sam Presti's offer for James Harden, right? What do you think Presti asked for? Why did KOC decline if Favors and Kanter are not the future of the team?

Bottom line is the Jazz are not looking to make a serious run with Jefferson and Millsap, and are trying to bring Favors and Kanter along at a comfortable level while attempting to get something back for their two expiring bigs. CoTy has to play winning ball & cannot destroy the market value of these two by benching them. Not only would that destroy the locker room and winning culture, but it would send a message to the market that these guys can be had easier than Raja Bell.

It's a delicate situation that O'Connor and Corbin are handling beautifully. One way or another, next season will look much different.

Was this already discussed somewhere (details on what Presti wanted) and Jazz declining? Can you link it?

 

[Revolution 9]

KOC has a great plan, but it's too bad Corbin isn't following it...

 

[Purch]

What value does an expiring big like Sap or Al have?

What trades make sense. Can you come up with a few scenarios that make sense for the other team and our team?

I don't see how either of them have any value. The Jazz waited to long and teams will just wait in the offseason instead of giving up draft picks or young players for them.

The only teams that might want Al or Paul are teams over the cap and those teams probably have crap to offer us.

I'm really curious if you have some trades in mind. I'd like to see them.

They absolutely have value do you know how many teams are looking for bigs who can score, whether it be in the starting lineup or off the bench? Especially Eastern conference teams, cause most of them are very weak in their frontcourts.

 

[fishonjazz]

Well, we better get Beasley, Flynn, Jennings, Tyreke, Jianlian, Lopez. With all those minutes those guys played, they are stars!

It doesn't work that way. Favors was one of the rawest offensive players to enter the NBA in the last 5 or so years.
Enes Kanter didn't play a single game in college.
Alec Burks was the scoring leader for a sub-par school, and came in with questionable range and defense.
Gordon Hayward, good at everything, master of nothing.

Are those things you said about LeBron, CP3, Durant, Blake, or any other star coming into the league?

Stars don't have question marks.

Even kobe was thought to be too young and cocky (chucker). durant, too skinny.... blake could only dunk and thats it.
All of thier coaches gave them major minutes anyway.
Kevin love had question marks, paul pierce did too, derrick rose and westbrook supposedly couldn't shoot good enough.
Alot of stars had question marks, but all of thier coaches decided to give them major minutes anyway.

 

[Revolution 9]

Yes, Favors was raw when he came out of college a few years ago. It's great that he's come so far. His FT shooting has even improved.
He attacks the rim, draws fouls, and is starting to score on low post moves. The fact is he scores points, and puts up good stats in limited minutes.
It's time to expand those opportunities.

Lunatic and his band of stay the course/question nothing are trying to say we are comparing him to Lebron, Durant, etc. Favors is not in their league.
I think most people are saying we are better with him on the floor, and has a higher ceiling than Sap/Big Al.

 

[LunaticWolf]

Yes, Favors was raw when he came out of college a few years ago. It's great that he's come so far. His FT shooting has even improved.
He attacks the rim, draws fouls, and is starting to score on low post moves. The fact is he scores points, and puts up good stats in limited minutes.
It's time to expand those opportunities.

Lunatic and his band of stay the course/question nothing are trying to say we are comparing him to Lebron, Durant, etc. Favors is not in their league.
I think most people are saying we are better with him on the floor, and has a higher ceiling than Sap/Big Al.

No. I'm in the stay patient, this will all work it self out by the trade deadline, quit bitching because its annoying group.
You can also pen me in on the don't blow everything up because **** the team chemistry, burn bridges, and ruin our players trust in the coach petition.

 

[Purch]

I think it's common knowledge that Favors has a higher ceiling than Millsap, and that Kanter has a higher ceiling than Jefferson. No need to whine about getting rid of them after every game though. By the end of the season neither will be here.