Can the Corbin and Jefferson Experiment Please End?

[Stifle Tower]

Seriously, the Jazz were starting to play so well without Jefferson. Then he comes back and all it takes is one game before Corbin goes back to the "throw it inside to Jefferson offense." I am SO tired of seeing Al get the ball, try to go to his left, get stopped, throw it out, get it back, fake left, then turn baseline right into the double team.

As for Corbin...DAMN! How long before he realizes Kanter, Favors and Burks need more time and Jefferson, Millsap and Foye should be playing less? And what is he teaching these guys...the Sloan defensive system? The one in which the Jazz players just watch the opposing shooters and hope the shots don't go in? How come it's so hard for Utah to get shots off, but opponents can shoot at will? And as Harpring said, do the Jazz even have an offensive system?

I'm seriously hoping the Jazz go on a LONG losing streak and end up missing the playoffs. That's the ONLY way we might see a coaching change and KOC/Lindsey deciding some personnel changes need to be made. Otherwise, it's likely the organization tries to re-sign Jefferson, Foye and Millsap so the Jazz can win 45 games and compete for the 7th-8th seed every year.

 

[miki]

Seriously, the Jazz were starting to play so well without Jefferson. Then he comes back and all it takes is one game before Corbin goes back to the "throw it inside to Jefferson offense." I am SO tired of seeing Al get the ball, try to go to his left, get stopped, throw it out, get it back, fake left, then turn baseline right into the double team.

As for Corbin...DAMN! How long before he realizes Kanter, Favors and Burks need more time and Jefferson, Millsap and Foye should be playing less? And what is he teaching these guys...the Sloan defensive system? The one in which the Jazz players just watch the opposing shooters and hope the shots don't go in? How come it's so hard for Utah to get shots off, but opponents can shoot at will? And as Harpring said, do the Jazz even have an offensive system?

I'm seriously hoping the Jazz go on a LONG losing streak and end up missing the playoffs. That's the ONLY way we might see a coaching change and KOC/Lindsey deciding some personnel changes need to be made. Otherwise, it's likely the organization tries to re-sign Jefferson, Foye and Millsap so the Jazz can win 45 games and compete for the 7th-8th seed every year.

Agree.

 

[Tony]

Phil Jackson.

 

[Litany]

Agree.

Yup

 

[Weezur]

We're beating a beated up dead horse

 

[Dr. Jones]

Interesting. And compelling.

Bringin the heat, Mo. I like it.

 

[billyshelby]

We barely went to Jefferson in the post. I don't think we had a post possession until about 5 minutes left in the 1st. We started off the game all high/low getting shots off pin downs. We took a ton of stupid shots that Indy baited us into by stopping the break by conceding offensive boards, but mostly they killed us by frustrating our early offense knowing full well that we don't have a plan in the back half of the clock. We went more to the post with Kanter/Favors than Al.

 

[Weezur]

We barely went to Jefferson in the post. I don't think we had a post possession until about 5 minutes left in the 1st. We started off the game all high/low getting shots off pin downs. We took a ton of stupid shots that Indy baited us into by stopping the break by conceding offensive boards, but mostly they killed us by frustrating our early offense knowing full well that we don't have a plan in the back half of the clock. We went more to the post with Kanter/Favors than Al.

Al couldn't get position with Roy Hibbert on him.

 

[franklin]

We barely went to Jefferson in the post. I don't think we had a post possession until about 5 minutes left in the 1st. We started off the game all high/low getting shots off pin downs. We took a ton of stupid shots that Indy baited us into by stopping the break by conceding offensive boards, but mostly they killed us by frustrating our early offense knowing full well that we don't have a plan in the back half of the clock. We went more to the post with Kanter/Favors than Al.

I saw you posting in this and immediately thought "oh ****, JF has poisoned all the sensible posters".

 

[billyshelby]

Al couldn't get position with Roy Hibbert on him.

Not true. We didn't go post at all and we weren't trying. Ty wanted to run high/low, run flex cuts on the baseline. Rewatch the 1st quarter. The irony is went post a ton with the 2nd unit when we weren't running useless PnR with Hayward. The problem with the half court offense is we don't have cutters and we don't know how to reset.

 

[billyshelby]

I saw you posting in this and immediately thought "oh ****, JF has poisoned all the sensible posters".

No, but you have to admit that Ty still has a lot of work to do figuring out how to make our half court offense more dynamic. With the bigs we have, we should run a lot of high/low. We should go post a lot. But I'm tired of watching 1) nobody move on post possessions; 2) nobody cut (except Marvin on the baseline recently); and 3) not having one single play to run from 10 seconds down.

 

[orangello]

We're beating a beated up dead horse

This.

 

[Weezur]

Not true. We didn't go post at all and we weren't trying. Ty wanted to run high/low, run flex cuts on the baseline. Rewatch the 1st quarter. The irony is went post a ton with the 2nd unit when we weren't running useless PnR with Hayward. The problem with the half court offense is we don't have cutters and we don't know how to reset.

Hibbert was getting position down low every time in the first quarter. Maybe that's why we didn't go to Al.
Our half-court offense sucked. I thought Ty shoulda brought in Jamaal Tinsley to help fix some of it rather than going for Watson's crazy pace.

 

[The Thriller]

Think how good this team would be if Pops had it?

Hell, just think how good we'd be if Vogel, Tibs, or hell, the NY Knicks Woodson were coaching us!?

 

[orangello]

Think how good this team would be if Pops had it?

Hell, just think how good we'd be if Vogel, Tibs, or hell, the NY Knicks Woodson were coaching us!?

That is too far.

 

[zman1527]

We're beating a beated up dead horse

But he keeps trotting back onto the court every night, so he needs to be beated up some more.

 

[franklin]

No, but you have to admit that Ty still has a lot of work to do figuring out how to make our half court offense more dynamic. With the bigs we have, we should run a lot of high/low. We should go post a lot. But I'm tired of watching 1) nobody move on post possessions; 2) nobody cut (except Marvin on the baseline recently); and 3) not having one single play to run from 10 seconds down.

I reject this. It's clearly a talent problem. Corbin's offense is killer dynamic when the Jazz play against garbage defenses like Toronto. These guys simply aren't good enough to execute a lot of the stuff Corbin has lined up.

You mean, in terms of which direction he goes off the pick when a defense is trying to force him one way?

Sure, which direction to go, how to attack so you’re not just stringing the play out. And never taking just one dribble, and stopping and freezing, because then you play into the hands of the defense. He’s getting better. It’s just a process. He’s such a versatile guy, and we want to put the ball in his hands and let him make plays, especially with our second group.

Corbin is being patient and hoping Haywad grows into a roll where the offense can run more stuff.

Foye can't run anything besides staggered screen jump shot plays.
Haywad is missing wide open looks.
Marvin is cutting more.
Team transition defense is awful, so Corbin can't run a lot of plays that would put them at risk getting back.
We are seeing more high-low, something I've been asking for for 2 games. I've even heard players yell out "high low high low" when the 1st option broke down.
Corbin is adding more looks with the Al post as well. He's sending the ball in from further down the wing than from the top, and having Marvin make the entry pass then cut baseline.

These players need more time to mesh. I hope the team gets blown up instead so the next group can begin coming together.

 

[Crawlnstall]

We can contend for the 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs every year if we keep giving tons of minutes to Foye, Jefferson and Millsap. Or we can lose some games, but gain exp for our young core and actually hope for the future if we play kanter, favors and Burks. I can't think of any team that would have two top 3 picks riding the bench and one top 12 pick, who is high energy and can get to the rim...something the Jazz rarely have, who isn't playing at all. This is terrible minutes allocation and rotation decisions. Lets not contend for the 7th or 8th seed and actually try to be better for the long term

 

[franklin]

You know what's wrong with this offense, Billy. Every player gets the ball and thinks they have to do something with it immediately. If they (Haywad, Marvin, Foye) hold the ball on the wing waiting for a play to develop then the defense suffocates the hell out of them and they're not good enough to take advantage. They can't pass out of it, can't dribble out of it, can't do squat. So hi ho hi ho back into the post we go. The only guy half competent of breaking this is DeMarre Carroll and he does it with pure energy. Still looks like crap though.

Corbin keeps trying to bring Kanter and Favors along in the post & a whole lot of stagnation should be expected during that learning process. Neither of them can pass worth a damn.

 

[fishonjazz]

You know what's wrong with this offense, Billy. Every player gets the ball and thinks they have to do something with it immediately. If they (Haywad, Marvin, Foye) hold the ball on the wing waiting for a play to develop then the defense suffocates the hell out of them and they're not good enough to take advantage. They can't pass out of it, can't dribble out of it, can't do squat. So hi ho hi ho back into the post we go. The only guy half competent of breaking this is DeMarre Carroll and he does it with pure energy. Still looks like crap though.

Corbin keeps trying to bring Kanter and Favors along in the post & a whole lot of stagnation should be expected during that learning process. Neither of them can pass worth a damn.

Burks might be able to dribble or pass out of this situation you speak of.